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Old 05-08-2009, 07:30 PM
Kerry Pinkerton's Avatar
Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Near Huntsville, Alabama. Just south of the Tennessee line off I65
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Default The Art Deco Imperial Project - Part 3

THE ART DECO ROADSTER PROJECT

2-27-07
It's going to look a lot like like the below without a top. The origin will probably be pretty unmistakable. Longer wheelbase maybe not quite as wide. The front and rear are 62" hub to hub. I have to do a bolt pattern conversion and will use 2" spacers/adapters on both along with minimum backspace wheels which should get the outside tires about 70" which would make the body about 72-73" wide. I've got to get it on tires, take some photos of the chassis with the motor and firewall in place and make some sketches.

The rear end may be a little different. I want the rear fenders to mirror the lines of the decklid and I may do less of a boattail so I have room for a gas tank. I'd love a little luggage space but it's looking like that may be tough.

I planned for 5' cabin length (5x4") and with the Jag rear may be able to sneak a few cubic feet behind the seats. I went with a 4' cabin width (INSIDE). Here are some images of the inspiration.

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This is one of the stunning renderings that Alex did in SolidWorks.

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One of the unrealistic issues with the Bugatti build thread was the wheel/tire combo was all custom stuff....not really an option for me.
I'd love to go with wire wheels but I'd need at least 16" rims to get the diameter I want (31-32") I priced a set of Dayton wires with 2 1/4" backspace today....$2000+ set. I might end up with that eventually but for now I'll probably get some truck wheel takeoffs. I have a set of 245/70x16s off my GMC that would do fine until I start driving it. Diameter is about 30" so that would be fairly close also...

I can also get chrome reverse wheels for $600/set in 16x8.

I'm open to ideas on the wheels and tires. To get the 'look' I'll need diameters around 31". Bolt patterns are easy.

The Dakota had a lot of backspace but a Durango (same bolt pattern) has probably 2" less which increases track 4". I can easily adapt the Jag Chevy rear pattern to the 6x4.5 pattern of the Durango or I can adapt to pretty much anything. Adapter/spacers are cheap.
3-10-07

Ok, this morning, I pulled the chassis out and got some good photos. The side view has a 4' scale on the ground that I will use for dimensions. I'll trace body design ideas over these drawings.


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Varoom varoom, VAROOM!

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And the three quarter view.

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The tires are too wide but the rears may be OK, the fronts will definitely be replaced with narrower tires. These will work for mockup and construction however.

I'm also going to replace all the wearable components in the front end. New everything is pretty cheap.

While I have the car up at Dutch's meet this summer, I'm going to have his mechanic buddy change out the gears. The Dakota had a 3.50 rear with 26" diameter tires, this jag has a 2.88 with 30" tires. I haven't done the math yet but probably a 4.11 rear end would work.

I just ordered the 1/4" steel rod (20 20' lengths) Friday so I don't have anything to start lofting body lines. Since the weather was nice, I decided to pull everything I wanted to keep out of the Dakota cab before it gets full of spiders and wasps this summer.

I'll build a wireform boundry shell out of the rod that will bolt in place so I will know the physical boundaries of the motor/trans. Then I can pull the motor and not have to deal with the actual motor/trans and weight during the build process. The body panels will have to clear the boundry shell.

I need to order some steering ujoints, double D rod, and support bearings so I can mock up the steering. I'd like to find seats too so I can make sure everything fits where I want it. I've seen a few rods where the steering was not in the center of the drivers seats.

The Knoxville NSRA nats are the week after the Bugly meet and I'm planning on going up the Friday and get some 'stuff'.

It was actually a little warm so I brought the cab in the shop with the forklift and finished pulling the seats so I could get to everything. Bifocals suck when you're working on your back. SUCK!

For simplicity, I'll be using the Dakota steering column and guages primarily because they will plug into the basic harness and no one makes harnesses for the 318 electronics. The Dakota instrument cluster should work well.

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It has modular guages that I can simply make new faces for and put behind cut out aluminum face.

The tilt steering column also should work well. Of course, I won't be using the air bag but the wheel itself is easily changed.

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The dashboard wiring harness was a bear to remove. EVERYTHING has to come out. Finally it was all out and labeled.

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Gator (Rick Hemlick) is sending me a wiring diagram. Most of these won't be used. I just want the motor and trans to work the way they did in the Dakota. For $800 Street and Performance will make me a new harness for the EFI and trans, using my connectors. Nothing for the guages though and the MOPAR stuff is different. So for this incarnation, I'll go with a modified stock harness and the stock guages and column. Lights and stuff is easy.

Pulled the accelerator pedal/cable and the hanging brake pedal and ebrake also. Don't know if I'll use the ebrake pedal or go with a hand lever....

By tomorrow, I'll have everything I could possibly want out of the cab and will be able to list the Dakota parts for sale.

Got to build some machines next week so probably not much progress until the 1/4" rod comes in.

Design sketches next!

3/13/07

Humm, this is what happens when you rush into things...specifically the Jag rear end.

I called a friend of Dutch's to ask if he would change out the Jag gears when I have the car at Dutch's for his meet. Its a Dana 44, shouldn't be much we thought. WRONG. Turns out the parts are close to $900 delivered and it has to be a positrac because that's the only thing that fits the housing...???

I've ordered a Concours West catalog so maybe his supplier was wrong.

I'm rethinking spending that kind of money on this Jag rear. I would still have to do the brakes and stuff also so I'd probably have close to $1500 in it and you won't even be able to see it...

I'm considering going back to the Dakota rear end and switching it over to coil overs and a 4 link. The Dakota already has a 3.50 rear and even with the larger tires, with the new body being so light, it should still scoot pretty well and Mopar gears are cheap and easy.

On another note, The 30 12' lengths of 1/4" rod for the body bucks came in today.

At this point, I'm dealing with economics and time more than anything else. I think I can get the car on the road quicker and CHEAPER by modifying the 3.50 Dakota than overhauling the Jag.

I can always go back to the Jag down the road.

Had a really good talk with James Bowler today about car construction. James built a full size wooden buck, built the body to the buck and than had to fit the body to the frame. He suggests building the buck ON the frame and just building the body which is what I had in mind. (this is how Dick Bear did the McBearen too) James' car is all aluminum, interior and all. He said if he had it to do again, he'd use steel for the floor, door jambs, door interior frame, firewall etc, dash, etc and mount the skin to the frame.

I like that approach. Got lots of 18 ga!

3/14/07

I did call the guys that Frank suggested (Randys Ring and Pinion) this morning. As someone said, the carrier change is at 3.73. Below that you just need the new ring/pinion which only run about $160. Given what everyone is saying, that should certainly be high enough so I'm feeling better about the Jag. The bearing kit is $223.

Lots to think about. I guess I can always change over the rear down the road...

Anyway some of the comments about weight got me to thinking and I took my high tech rod scales (two bathroom scales with a board between them, add the numbers. Not NASCAR accurate but probably fairly close.

Front 360 360 total front 720 is 51%
Rear 345 345 total rear 690 is 49%

Total weight as she sits 1410

Obviously a lot of stuff still to be hung on the chassis, up front we have the radiator, fan, pwr steering pump, throttle body, air cleaner, steering wheel, etc. On the back we have the gas tank, brake calipers, interior battery, etc. And of course the body all over. Don't really have a clue how much all that weighs but I'm thinking not a lot over 2000 lbs. A sheet of .063 aluminum is just a less than 29 lbs. Even with 5 sheets, that's only 150#, plus inner structure. The seats may weight more than the skin....

The Dakota weighed 3931lbs and has 230HP with 290ft lbs. About 17 lbs/HP The car should be about 9 lb/HP. There is probably a way to tie that into the rear end ratio but I didn't sleep much last night and my brain is mushy this morning.
3/15/07

Btw, here is a sketch I've been working on...SOMETHING like this...

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Couldn't get my scanner to work so just took a digital photo of the drawing.
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