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Old 05-08-2009, 08:22 PM
Kerry Pinkerton's Avatar
Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Location: Near Huntsville, Alabama. Just south of the Tennessee line off I65
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Default The Art Deco Imperial Project - Part 15

THE ART DECO ROADSTER PROJECT
12/23/07
Wray Schelin says he figures an hour a foot for welding and finishing. We used to laugh about "Wray time" vs time for mere mortals. I'm probably closer to 2 hours/foot and I've still got some tweaking to do. The fenders actually look better in person but there are some highs and lows that will have to be tweaked.

Here is the nose piece welded on. I think the hardest part is holding things together while I tack...I need to get some of that magic aluminum that's magnetic...

The reflection makes it look like the weld is still proud but it's perfectly smooth.



Interesting learning about aluminum. There were a few highs and lows and mismatches near the seam but a few minutes wheeling and everything blended and it fits the buck very nice.

Every time I use my big wheel I'm more impressed with how important frame stiffness is, especially with aluminum. I can set a gap just about the metal thickness and the frame will stretch the metal or actually shrink high spots with little effort. I knock the proud down, wheel which shows by making all the high spots shiny, knock them down some more until the shiny is uniform, then file a bit and it's done and everything is blended smooth.



I left myself about an inch for the wire edge which will be the last thing done on the fender.

I'll try and get a start on the rear of the fender tomorrow but probably won't get much time on it. I think I'm probably going to have to help the wife cook for Christmas dinner.. My goal is to finish the fender this coming week.

12/24/07
Thanks for the compliments on my weldingguys. I ain't no expert but I think they will hold and that's the main thing.

Quote:
... you made comment about wishing you had a Manual Transmission Set-Up, Remember? JB commented that the Tranny wiring Issues were a good reason as to why he uses common components. Have you decided what Transmission you'll be going with? Also is it still going to be under Modern Mopar Power, Or will you cross the line to the common components to get the Manual Transmission? Every V8 Chevy will bolt to Every Chevy V8 Bell Housing, Besides, that Corvette Rear End is screaming for a Big Block.


I don't know.... I don't know....

I've found a guy on the Dakota USA site that has offered me a really good deal on a 5sp but it's the lighter one that is normally behind V6's. It will fit and according to some Mopar guys will probably hold up fine but with my luck...

Another reason for wanting to go manual was to scrap the computer and go with a carb. Problem is the newer 318 heads don't have a dual plane manifold available. I don't want a single plane high RPM manifold.

I've also found an older 833 4sp OD tranny that is V8 rated but it's in unknown condition and I'd probably have it gone through... It fits in a B Body Mopar and has two shifter positions so it would probably fit the cockpit well with the shifter in the rear position.

I don't know. Lots of other considerations. Clutch pedal room. Gear shift placement....

I really want to stay Mopar. Chebby would be cheaper and simplier but it'd be just another belly button combo and I'm not into that. A big block would be too heavy and probably too wide for the car. Right now it's 50%/50% weight distribution which should make a really nice riding & handling car. I do have this strong 454 in my Dad's dually just sitting there turning to dirt though.... NO NO STAY BACK...I REJECT YOU!!!!!

I have this 351 Cleveland that would make a really nice motor but it's a (gag) FORD! Whoever heard of a Ford in an Imperial???

I guess that this is why I shifted to shaping metal for a while so I could ruminate on all this 'stuff'. My inclination TONIGHT is to stay with the 318/automatic, make a gas tank from stainless/aluminum and maybe look for something exotic for generation II.

Current body unresolved thinking is how I'm going to mount and support the fenders. I'm NOT going to weld them directly to the body but rather bolt them on to the main body via a turned seam in the bottom of the sweep between the body and vender...hopefully a nice sweeping line. But I still need a way to support them as the car rolls down the road.

I'll also need some type of inner fender to keep the rocks from ruining the exterior skin and paint job... I'd been thinking of a wired edge but if I turned a couple flanges I could bolt the inner fender to the outer skin.....

I don't know...I don't know.

Dang there are a jillion details that need decisions....I have a headache.
12/26/07
Beautiful day after Christmas here today....55 degrees so I did some stuff outside until late afternoon when I went in the shop to play with the fender.

Cut a blank:



An hour later it was at the 80% point:



I'm working with the pattern on the inside of the panel so they will fit the buck better. It's a bit different but it seems a little easier once I started getting used to it.

There are lots of of ways to make panels, tuck shrinking, stump shrinking, using the deep throat shrinker, thumbnail dies, pure stretch, stretch and shrink, mallet, bag, wheel, planishing hammer, and probably a few more that I can't think of. I'm experimenting with different approaches. This one was done all pure shrink using thumbnail dies (Clay Cook) in the Pullmax so far except a couple passes with the wheel. I've got an hour in it so far.

It's supposed to rain tomorrow so I'll probably finish it up. I have to make 3 more just like it. (2 reverse sides)
12/29/07
Here is the outer rear fender piece. I'll probably do the inner one tomorrow and then repeat the whole fender for the other side.

This was pure shrink, 97% using thumbnail dies, 2% wheeling, and probably 1% a few taps on the deep throat shrinker with Eckold dies. There were probably 20 very light hammer taps in the center. I also used a gokart slick to help put it in arrangement. With this much shape in the panel, getting the proper arrangement was pretty difficult even with it being aluminum.

It's really, really close! I have one high spot about 2" in diameter and about 1/8" high that is too far to reach with the shrinker. I can either run in a few thumbnail tracks to shrink it out and then stretch out the outer portion, work it down with traditional hammer/dolly methods, or use the shrinking disk. I'm probably going to use the shrinking disk on it. I'll need to master it anyway so I might as well get to it.


To answer some email questions, I've got about 2 1/2 - 3 hours in the panel so far. Probably another half hour before I tack it to the other pieces.

I've been thinking a lot about how to mount the fenders and also to protect the relatively fragile aluminum and the paint on it.

I still have to find a way to securely mount the fenders and plan for repairability.

I want to have the fenders bolt to the main body and use a fender welt between the panels. The joint will be at the center of the sweeping reverse valley between the fender and the body itself.

Here is a pitifully bad drawing that shows something I'm thinking about.

The fender skin is the aluminum fender you've been watching me build. You can see the flange in the center of the valley. There would be an inner fender (probably steel) with vertical support arms every so often welded to it and going over to bolt to the frame through urethane body mounts to isolate vibrations.

The fender itself would bolt to the inner fender and also through the flange to the frame itself. The inner fender would protect the outer panels and provide strength without having to have any bracketry welded to the outer panel.


It's possible that the inner fender can attach to the frame on the side rather than the top of the frame tube. This would make the inner fender more structural and reduce the strength requirements for the support bracket, possibly eliminating it alltogether.

This drawing is a closeup of the way the outer fender would fasten to the the inner. I'll tip a detail line (just for appearance) about 1" from the wheel opening and then tip a 90 for the actual wheel opening. An additional aluminum angle will be shaped and rosette welded to the fender lip forming an angled inner lip. This could be done in one piece but would be more complicated. The steel inner fender and the inner lip will be bolted together with blind nuts or nutserts.

The green shape is some type (to be determined) of steel brackets that tie the inner fender to the frame itself. It would be welded to the inner fender.

Obviously none of these drawings are to scale. The inner fender will have to clear tire travel.


Does this make sense? Most my older Mopars are done this way and it strikes me as a fairly easy and elegant way to address not only the fender mounting but the repairability and paint protection also.

1/1/08
Well things may change yet again....

I've been agonizing over the engine/tranny for weeks. The 318 is a great little engine but just doesn't have the 'look'. Jags do but the 7grand price for a built engine is out of my price range and manual OD trannys are not easily or cheaply available.

Surfing around I found something REALLY interesting. A 325-350HP Chevy 250 (now 277) in line 6. Fresh built but stored a few years by someone who knew how to store it.

The downside is it may be too hot. The compression is 11:1 and it has a .600 lift cam which means it's lumpy and requires premium. Any Chevy V8 or inline 6 tranny will fit and I think a 5 speed is reasonable. That's what I'm looking at now. The price is quite reasonable...quite. I should be able to sell the 318 for what the 250 runs me. And it gets me back to things I'm comfortable with, a hot wire and a gas line.

I can easily build a valve cover that has a OH cam 'look' to add to the 30's era apperance of the inline motor.

Thinking on it HARD! Anyone got a GM 5 speed for sale?
1/6/08
Well, after considerable soul searching, I pulled the trigger on a different motor/tranny. That marks the end of the Dakota/Mopar components...

Tomorrow, Gator is picking up a motor I found on CraigsList up in his area. Its a Chevy inline 6, 250cuin now 277. 11:1 compression, 600 lift cam. headers, 4bl aluminum intake, ported, polished, balanced, TRW forged flat top pistons (307 Chevy), V8 valves, new electronic ignition distributor new everything. No miles on motor other than break in. The 2bbl version of this motor with less head work dynos at 325. This one should be closer to 375. The guy had the motor built for his son but the kid wanted a V8...

I'll have to detune it a bit for a more streetable engine. Brian Herman is quite experienced with these engines and told me that changing the cam is a piece cake.

Plans are to make a custom aluminum 'dual overhead cam' looking valve cover and other period correct stuff. Eventually I'd like to get a manifold for 3 sidedraft carbs.

I also picked up a T56 6 speed tranny from a 96 Camero (Borg Warner version). It has a 1 1/8" 26 spline input shaft and I'll have to get a clutch kit that fits it. I got a 5 speed flywheel with the tranny that may or may not work. This particular year trans has the pull type clutch which are pretty pricy but a different bellhousing should be cheap. The photo below is not MINE but one like mine. Mine isn't that petty...yet.



I haven't been able to mock the tranny up yet to the seating position but it 'looks' like the shifter will be about perfectly positioned. The way the shifter handle bolts into the shifter it will be pretty easy to position the shifter handle pretty much wherever I want it.
With the Corvette C4 suspension installed, things move around a bit. The rear wheels are about 3" further back and the front is about 9" back making the new wheelbase 114 or so. I redrew the rendering showing this. Also I've reconsidered the front fender and decided it needs a gentle sweep instead of the straight line.

Here is the new drawing:



And for comparison, this is the previous version with the original wheelbase and straighter front fender.



And this is the original configuration that was at MM07:

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