All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > Basic questions and answers
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:33 PM
ShawnMarsh ShawnMarsh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Newark, CA
Posts: 425
Default Hard time after welding

Hey guys, this is my biggest problem right now, and it happens to me every time, so I can really use some help. I have been getting a very good fitup on my panels in recent months, so I have been fusion welding as many of you say to do.

My first problem is that I get undercutting on about 1/2 the weld with little pits. Am I just burning it too hot? My penetration looks good on the back side, or if anything a little light, so I'm not sure how to fix the undercutting without adding rod.

My bigger question, is about planishing the weld. I hammer on dolly on the weld and the HAZ, but every time it seems I end up with an oil can in the middle of the panel. I am not sure if I'm over stretching the weld, and that is the cause, or if I'm not hammering enough and it's still shrunk too much which causes the oil can. I can see it being either way, and I can't seem to figure it out.
__________________
http://www.shawnmarsh.com - My metalshaping portfolio as I get started in the world of metal.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:40 PM
patman's Avatar
patman patman is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Mar. 2010
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hastings Nebraska
Posts: 314
Default

Shawn I had the same problem with the pitts and after talking to Fay Butler (super cool dude by the way) He told me that you need to add just a dab of filler to de-oxidize the weld puddle I found that a dab per inch did the trick and as for the under cut an old torch master once showed me that if you peen the edge of the panels (Very lightly) you will mush the edge just a bit and that bit will prevent undercut seems to work for me how much of a seam to you weld at a time??
__________________
Pat

https://imperialwheelingmachines.com/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:47 PM
Ron W Ron W is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Corinth, Maine
Posts: 37
Default

Sounds like too much hammering to me. I know that many recomend no filler but I seem to have better luck with a little RG 45 filler when doing steel with the torch. Ron W
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:51 PM
Ewing Kustoms Ewing Kustoms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: US HWY 12, Washington State
Posts: 18
Default

I agree with always using some filler. There may be some jobs that a fusion weld is fine, but I typically always use filler. You may even try some MIG wire for filler. If you have good fitment, this just might do the trick. This works for me, but everyone has a different way of doing things.

Just hammer enough to return the portion you just welded back to original. Do not hammer to hard if you are a beginner. This can get you in trouble fast.

Josh
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-18-2010, 09:06 PM
patman's Avatar
patman patman is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Mar. 2010
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hastings Nebraska
Posts: 314
Default

It could be too much hammering or not enough or not evenly enough a oil can can be too much stretch or to much shrink after watching how some of the guys from across the pond planish I made a huge heavy slapper and just try to do the whole seam as evenly as posable I usually end up with some spots that are a little flater than they should be and those spots are a little flimsy I think that is the neutral point and if another area is stretched first that could be the birth of a oil can so I try to raise the seam as evenly as I can working the slower spots first and gradually working the whole seam agen
__________________
Pat

https://imperialwheelingmachines.com/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-19-2010, 09:23 AM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October 2012
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Glen Cove, Long Island
Posts: 1,675
Default

Shawn, I always have my tig pen loaded up (usually a piece 4’ long or longer) with .030 mig wire for any pinhole type craters that may turn up. I strive to run consistent fusion welds so planishing out the shrinkage goes as smoothly & quickly as possible but in my case I don’t always pull it off ---- I’m certainly not the best welder in the group. My CP hammer lifts up and levels sunken weld beads so nicely I don’t even give it a second thought any more. The CP hammer has sort of spoiled me, I place all my seams where it’s most easily used and bitch a bit when I’m forced to do some hand planishing which never seems to come out quite as nice as the CP hammer work does. ~ John Buchtenkirch

P.S. On parts to be chromed I do add rod when I weld so I have material to polish off, otherwise I feel it’s just extra needless work.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-19-2010, 10:43 AM
idickers's Avatar
idickers idickers is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 206
Default

Help a newbie out, what's a "CP hammer"?

Thanks,
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-19-2010, 10:58 AM
Marty Comstock's Avatar
Marty Comstock Marty Comstock is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: East Herkimer NY
Posts: 1,570
Default

One of these...

zl dad planishing some welds 38.jpg

On another note, how much time is actually saved by not using filler rod? The gap has to be damn near perfect, and getting that IMHO takes even more time than its worth. Maybe I like grinding, maybe its because I am good at it. I dont see the point of spending a buck to save a nickel. Too many advantages of using filler, for me.

Marty
__________________
Results = (Effort X Determination2) + Time
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-19-2010, 12:33 PM
Ewing Kustoms Ewing Kustoms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: US HWY 12, Washington State
Posts: 18
Default

...and one of these. This is my 36" pedestal mount.

Josh

IMG_0706.jpg


IMG_0706.jpg

Last edited by Ewing Kustoms; 05-19-2010 at 03:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-19-2010, 12:35 PM
Gleeser's Avatar
Gleeser Gleeser is offline
Metalshaper of the Month, May 2010
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: North Missouri
Posts: 350
Default

Just from personal experience I agree with Marty. I blow holes and crack welds when fusion welding... constantly. At least if I planish it afterwards. If you're REALLY good at it then I guess it's not as much of an issue... I am NOT really good at it. Some guys on here are phenomenal at fusion welding panels & one of them showed me how it's done. I don't doubt the valid reasons for doing it.. I just don't like the time factor involved in fitment and repair at my skill level... lazy I guess.

I'm quite certain it is a valuable skill to have though. I just haven't ever committed to perfecting it. I can torch weld with filler and planish it smooth without busting it as it stands now though.
__________________
Grant


Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.