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Old 11-26-2014, 09:38 AM
toreadorxlt toreadorxlt is offline
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Default Tip size affect on OA welding 3003

I am currently welding .050 3003 with a Meco torch with a #2 tip and TM tech flux. I am setting a neutral flame, moderatly loud for tacking and whispering for welding. The pace I have to move is really fast once it gets going, about 2x what the video william longyard put up of kent welding.

In order to slow down that pace a tad, would I want to swap to a bigger or smaller tip? Would a #3 tip be a less hot but wider flame? Or a more hot and wider flame? Little confused on the tip sizes influence on things. Can anybody clear it up?
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:30 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by toreadorxlt View Post
I am currently welding .050 3003 with a Meco torch with a #2 tip and TM tech flux. I am setting a neutral flame, moderatly loud for tacking and whispering for welding. The pace I have to move is really fast once it gets going, about 2x what the video william longyard put up of kent welding.

In order to slow down that pace a tad, would I want to swap to a bigger or smaller tip? Would a #3 tip be a less hot but wider flame? Or a more hot and wider flame? Little confused on the tip sizes influence on things. Can anybody clear it up?
Steve,
What we do is just reduce the flame size a little. Because people learn to weld at different speeds, it's nice to set the flame down for slow welding, and then be able to set the flame larger for faster welding. The Meco #2 tip has enough variability to weld .040" and .063" so it gives a very good heat range on the .050"
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2014, 07:05 PM
Richard-S Richard-S is offline
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Something I got from Kent's video on gas welding aluminum, and that solved most of the problems I was having, was watching him continually pulling the torch away from the weld to control the heat. I was trying to weld aluminum the way I welded steel, just moving the torch around a little. Didn't work on aluminum.

Richard
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Old 11-26-2014, 07:22 PM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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You should not have to continually pull the flame away from the weld. If you do you do not have the flame set correctly or the correct size nozzle. The welding should flow without continually stopping and starting to ensure even penetration and a sound weld. If you watch my youtube footage you can see that I do a continuous run of weld without stopping and that the weld pool is never out of the flame and neither is the filler rod.

If you lift the flame from the workpiece the weld pool can become oxidized, you will also have a rather odd looking weld that appears to be lots of little short spot welds instead of one continuous one. The penetration will be uneven resulting in having to clean it back by grinding.

I have described how to correctly set the flame several times. There is no fast or slow welding you have to set the flame correctly then learn how to weld with it. There are no shortcuts or workarounds if you want good results. I was taught to weld on three different courses at different times in my life by three different college lecturers and they all taught the same methods of setting up and the same techniques.

David
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Last edited by David Gardiner; 11-26-2014 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 11-27-2014, 12:14 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by David Gardiner View Post
You should not have to continually pull the flame away from the weld. If you do you do not have the flame set correctly or the correct size nozzle. The welding should flow without continually stopping and starting to ensure even penetration and a sound weld. If you watch my youtube footage you can see that I do a continuous run of weld without stopping and that the weld pool is never out of the flame and neither is the filler rod.

If you lift the flame from the workpiece the weld pool can become oxidized, you will also have a rather odd looking weld that appears to be lots of little short spot welds instead of one continuous one. The penetration will be uneven resulting in having to clean it back by grinding.

I have described how to correctly set the flame several times. There is no fast or slow welding you have to set the flame correctly then learn how to weld with it. There are no shortcuts or workarounds if you want good results. I was taught to weld on three different courses at different times in my life by three different college lecturers and they all taught the same methods of setting up and the same techniques.

David
Thank you for your opinions, Mr. Gardiner. I'm certain they are very much appreciated.
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Old 11-27-2014, 02:37 AM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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Opinions are only valid if they are backed up by the results. I don't have an opinion on everything because I don't know everything. When I do give my opinion I back it up with clear close up photos showing the results. I at least try to explain my reasoning behind my thoughts and explain where I learned my knowledge of the subject from to show that it's not just my opinion. I don't know how to improve every idea that anyone else ever thought up. I believe those that did this years ago knew their stuff and I try to pass on what I was taught without thinking I know better and can improve on it in every way. People are welcome to agree or not it's their choice.

This is a close up of a weld that I did in front of several members of this forum...



What I aim for when welding panels is a consistent low profile weld that is even and has nice even penetration with not too much build on either side. (The two go hand in hand) I also want to carry out the weld quickly and efficiently.


Below is the underside of the same weld...



Each time you lift the flame from the workpiece the weld cools and a skin of oxide forms this has then to be 're-melted which will cause the weld to look like a series of tacks because effectively that is what it is. The penetration will not be consistent because the welding process is not consistent. To me this is obvious and common sense.

David
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Last edited by David Gardiner; 11-27-2014 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 11-27-2014, 07:38 AM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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I have heard that torch manufactures uses different numbering for tip sizes. Is there an orifice size in mm or thou" that you guys can recommend? I am just starting O/A welding of ally and have no clue .
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Old 11-27-2014, 08:11 AM
toreadorxlt toreadorxlt is offline
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Thank you all, all feedback is appreciated. It seems like always there's more than one way to get to town. I'll try them all and find my own route. I am excited however to actually get 2 pieces stuck together after months of trying. While it might not be the prettiest, it was leaps and bounds tougher than my pretty appearing tig welds.




Tuck shrunk over another test panels weld seam and saw no failure.

I'll keep practicing and keep my tig for steel use :-)
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Old 11-27-2014, 08:18 AM
RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
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Very nice progress Steve. It go faster from now on.

I would still like to talk to you regarding the scanning and SolidWorks. I am having trouble once I get a surface or a solid imported imported from an .iges file.
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Old 11-27-2014, 12:16 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Motage View Post
I have heard that torch manufactures uses different numbering for tip sizes. Is there an orifice size in mm or thou" that you guys can recommend? I am just starting O/A welding of ally and have no clue .
Sure Mike,
Here is the Novak tip selection chart:
https://www.tinmantech.com/html/meco_midget_torch.php
open the page and select "tip chart" from the tab bar - it is a popup and not a page.

This tip chart is in wire drill, decimal inch, and metric sizes. It covers Meco, Harris, Dillon/Henrob/Cobra (DHC), Smith, Victor, and Oxweld.

You will see that many tip sizes are consistent, some are sort of consistent, and some are in-between sizes. Some tips can be re-drilled for exact usage, as for tubing clusters, for instance. For this reason, buying 2-3 of one size can be helpful.

We offer the printed and laminated version with our little booklet on Aluminum Gas Welding.
https://www.tinmantech.com/html/booklets.php

Hope this helps,
and Happy Thanksgiving,
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