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Old 03-08-2019, 04:13 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Default How much time is need for it?

How much time is need for to produce such a fender in exact shape and this quality ?

We tried to keep the radius exactly, steel 1mm. We thought we'd be done quickly.

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Old 03-08-2019, 05:26 PM
Gareth Davies Gareth Davies is offline
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Iíll guess at around 6 to 7 hours.
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:52 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Davies View Post
Iíll guess at around 6 to 7 hours.

Thank you Gareth. Anyone have another estimate? Please estimate. I want to compare production times.

These are shaping, matching, precise measurement, and decorative borders. You already have the tools. I'm interested only in the production time.

I will continue.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:36 PM
Don Papenburg Don Papenburg is online now
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One week and a month. I would spend a week screwing up a couple of fenders then I would need a month to get that one shiped over here from you.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:58 PM
Ken Hosford Ken Hosford is offline
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No dimensions stated . In mild steel to generate the fender shape well less than an hour on a Pullmax with doming dies starting with ~ 700 mm radius lower at least 2 thirds as wide as stock , dropping radius ~ 50-75mm increments as the part shapes up you need smaller increments 25 mm then 12.5mm then 6mm . Sounds like a lot of tooling , you can form metal over wood dies , I use MDF [ brownish fine particle board ] glued up and turned on a wood lathe set up with a crude x y slides made out of pipe and hand rail fittings .If you tie the cross slide to the head stock starting with your link parallel with the bed of the lathe and the tool bit dead on center ars you pull cross slide the link pulls the carriage toward the head stock forming the radius If epoxy coated these dies are pretty durable , I thin my epoxy with xylene maybe 10 % or less it makes it penetrate like crazy it takes a lot of coats to get it to gloss over .
you can also use particle board but it is hard to get a good surface and it takes a lot more epoxy.
By passing a narrow rectangular piece thru them it will form a part with the same radius along the length as across , not the shape you want so you pass it through an English wheel with 2 radiused upper wheels and a large wooden lower wheel with a radius ~30% smaller radius than the desired radius across final product . You need the smaller radius to allow for over bend necessary
I have formed 1 mm stainless , 1 mm titanium 1 mm hard brass on these dies .
To make the fender shape less bead if it is the size range I think it is possibly 4 in 1 hr . The process is very repeatable .
The real trick is to know when to stop doming die forming and start rearranging the shape on the English wheel
The trick to using wood die is moderate steps if you take to big a bite it will wad metal up requiring E wheel work to save it . Done properly the surface finish should be unharmed
By using large diameter and large radius dies you are not so much stretching as forming shallow waves that you are compressing much like tuck shrinking or thumb nail dies but the other end of the spectrum low angle low distress low stress , hence the ability to work the near impossible titanium I am using a P7 and 1.5 mm stainless is about as far as I have had the nerve to try on them and the machine

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Last edited by galooph; 03-09-2019 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 03-09-2019, 04:35 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Hosford View Post
No dimensions stated . In mild steel to generate the fender shape well less than an hour on a Pullmax with doming dies starting with ~ 700 mm radius lower at least 2 thirds as wide as stock , dropping radius ~ 50-75mm increments as the part shapes up you need smaller increments 25 mm then 12.5mm then 6mm . Sounds like a lot of tooling , you can form metal over wood dies , I use MDF [ brownish fine particle board ] glued up and turned on a wood lathe set up with a crude x y slides made out of pipe and hand rail fittings .If you tie the cross slide to the head stock starting with your link parallel with the bed of the lathe and the tool bit dead on center ars you pull cross slide the link pulls the carriage toward the head stock forming the radius If epoxy coated these dies are pretty durable , I thin my epoxy with xylene maybe 10 % or less it makes it penetrate like crazy it takes a lot of coats to get it to gloss over .
you can also use particle board but it is hard to get a good surface and it takes a lot more epoxy.
By passing a narrow rectangular piece thru them it will form a part with the same radius along the length as across , not the shape you want so you pass it through an English wheel with 2 radiused upper wheels and a large wooden lower wheel with a radius ~30% smaller radius than the desired radius across final product . You need the smaller radius to allow for over bend necessary
I have formed 1 mm stainless , 1 mm titanium 1 mm hard brass on these dies .
To make the fender shape less bead if it is the size range I think it is possibly 4 in 1 hr . The process is very repeatable .
The real trick is to know when to stop doming die forming and start rearranging the shape on the English wheel
The trick to using wood die is moderate steps if you take to big a bite it will wad metal up requiring E wheel work to save it . Done properly the surface finish should be unharmed
By using large diameter and large radius dies you are not so much stretching as forming shallow waves that you are compressing much like tuck shrinking or thumb nail dies but the other end of the spectrum low angle low distress low stress , hence the ability to work the near impossible titanium I am using a P7 and 1.5 mm stainless is about as far as I have had the nerve to try on them and the machine

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Attachment 51687
I'm trying to understand. Please describe the procedure. Where you start, and so on.
I feel like I'm getting this work I doing many hours. That it's useless time. I think I have a good result, TEN I HAVE ALWAYS, but the wrong way. Can you describe your path?

I use a double wheel and it's a great idea. I guess I got it from you ???

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Old 03-09-2019, 06:12 PM
carl 180 carl 180 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Davies View Post
Iíll guess at around 6 to 7 hours.
To make a nice 1 on the wheel I think Gareth is about right for first one possibly bit less then you will get to no the panel and time will come down. suppose it all depends on how you makeing them eckold/wheel/hammer/pullmax?
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Old 03-09-2019, 08:28 PM
Ken Hosford Ken Hosford is offline
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The key is the PullMax with large diameter doming dies .
Take a rectangular piece of metal run it thru a reciprocating machine with dies .66 to .88 the width of the stock starting out at a very large radius working the stock back and forth the narrow way while progressing down the length . Switch to a slightly smaller radius repeat . again again till wheeling .
I have my dual wheels much farther apart with a 75 - 100 mm wide lower .
The upper doming is like the inside of a donut large diameter hole with radius going into it .
I run my male die on the bottom and female die on top , the bottom die piloted over pin for centering lift of quick change .
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:05 AM
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neilb neilb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaroslav View Post
How much time is need for to produce such a fender in exact shape and this quality ?

We tried to keep the radius exactly, steel 1mm. We thought we'd be done quickly.
what size is the part?

looking at it i would say around 4 hours...ish
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:57 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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The length is about 500mm and width approx .200mm. Wheel diameter 19 ". The fender copies the tire at a distance of 15mm.

We felt it took us a long time. So I want to ask what time you need. I have all the Eckold + EW equipment.
We thought we'd have a max in 3 hours with lunch.
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