All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > General Discussion
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:43 AM
Richard K's Avatar
Richard K Richard K is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN or On the Road
Posts: 1,131
Default

I went searching for some tips by the trade publications on the customer and pricing issues. Not surprisingly, I did not find much. There are many articles on every aspect of running a rod or restoration shop. How to be a recognized shop, how to get your name out in front of the customers, how to find good employees, tax and tool tips and a host of other subjects.

However, any and all business activity greatest costs which can only be offset by revenue. That revenue or cash flow is a result of being paid for services.
Below are links to two articles I found that discuss the financial issues.

http://www.hotrodandrestoration.com/...etter-pricing/

http://www.hotrodandrestoration.com/...w-to-use-them/
__________________
Richard K
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-08-2011, 12:02 PM
Richard K's Avatar
Richard K Richard K is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN or On the Road
Posts: 1,131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hartson View Post
...................... You have to be able to make a clear distinction between work for friends and work for customers. If you can't do that you will have more friends that you can stand, ruin your hobby and loose money quickly.
.................................... Figure out what your shop rate should be taking into consideration all of the factors mentioned in other post and stick to it.

........ if you are not careful expanding can cost you more money than you will make in the short run. I have seen businesses fail or get in serious trouble because they tried to get bigger. .
Good advice Joe,

As you state a growing business is a business that needs careful planning. All to often the owner has the ability, the shop has the capacity and the customers are lined up for the business expansion.

Your comment "expanding can cost you more money than you will make in the short run." is called cash flow. It is a very important tool for a business even when not growing. The business needs "a cash balance" to pay expenses. Many growing businesses go down because of a short period of less than anticipated cash flow.

Cash flow is directly related to the topic of customer base. If you have customers who can afford to hire you, they can afford to and will pay on time. Furthermore, if the work you are doing is profitable; the jobs will be more likely to be completed when promised. Work schedule equals scheduled cash flow.
__________________
Richard K

Last edited by Richard K; 05-08-2011 at 12:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-08-2011, 12:17 PM
Richard K's Avatar
Richard K Richard K is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN or On the Road
Posts: 1,131
Default

I need to explain here. I am not saying you should turn away customers.

One of your many jobs as a business person is to sell your services. This involves selling your customers on the "value" of your service. the customer who is reluctant to pay what you ask may simply not understand the value of your shop's services.

List what it is that sets your shop apart from the competitor. Maybe it is something like "we send out our paint work to shops specializing in high tech paint and finish. They are equipped to the best work in that specialty. We concentrate on doing other work in house that we are well equipped for and have training and experience to assure the best value for your project."

Build yourself up, never tear the competitor down.
__________________
Richard K

Last edited by Richard K; 05-08-2011 at 12:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-08-2011, 01:19 PM
MP&C's Avatar
MP&C MP&C is offline
MetalShaper of the month Feb.-11, July - 2018, Sept. 2020
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Leonardtown, MD
Posts: 1,707
Default

Probably the best thing I have done so far is picked up a time clock at a local auction my wife dragged me to. I'd hate to think how much I've been undercharging by not keeping accurate track of time involved. Accurate recording of task details on the time card will also give me a better gauge for estimating repeat work as well.
__________________
Robert

Instagram @ mccartney_paint_and_custom

McCartney Paint and Custom YouTube channel
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-08-2011, 02:19 PM
bobadame bobadame is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Feb 2015
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 1,192
Default

I use an old Cincinnatti time clock too. Each project has it's own card. Without the clock time tends to get a little fuzzy.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-08-2011, 08:03 PM
cameron cameron is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metcalfe, Ontario
Posts: 132
Default

Keep in mind that some customers equate price with quality. If your price is low, they figure your quality is second rate, and balk at the price.

Dave Cameron
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-09-2011, 09:09 AM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
MetalShaper of the Month
May 2009, Jan 2012, Dec 2014
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: England
Posts: 5,325
Default

The comments made by Richard Joe and Kerry ring true but it is one thing to know what you should be charging and another to feel that you can charge it. I started my business a little more than twenty years ago and although I had enough work to be getting on with it was a case of working for the price set by the customer or the customer would go to more established companies. (why would they take a chance with me if there was no gain in it for them) I had few customers and no money to invest in the business and less hope of borrowing money from a bank so there was no money for marketing. It was the middle of a recession too. I did get other customers but it was always dependant on the price. I started with few tools and machines and constantly had to buy tools that I needed. I felt that if I had this or that tool or machine I could have done the job quicker and so could not charge a proper hourly rate. You may do as good a job as the next guy but can you do the job as quick?.

Another thing I have found is that a lot of customers are not that discerning and will go to someone else who will charge less even though you know that person will not do half the job you would do. Fine if you have more work than you need but not good if that was the only job you had this week and you have bills to pay. I never wanted to do poor quality work so I would do the job properly for the price someone else would charge for a botch job. Then there is always the guy who is doing work on the side has no overheads and pays no insurance business property tax or tax on his earnings to compete against. I have always had lots of work booked in but it always has been price dependent. The time clock thing is a good idea I keep job sheets for all work but the problem comes ( at least for metalshaping) when you add up all the hours and see what it comes to.

My advice for anyone starting out is have enough money to start the business and get it running plus some to spare then you will be in a position to follow the good advice given by Richard et all.

For anyone wanting to be self employed in this country (UK) I would say dont! We are getting more and more legislation against the self employed and employers, paid paternity leave, six weeks paid holiday for every employee, pension contributions for each employee and huge fines for not paying tax bills on time will soon put you out of business if things dont run smoothly (which they will not all the time).

David
__________________
Metalshaping DVD. www.metalshapingzone.com
Metalshaping with hand tools on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGElSHzm0q8

All things are possible.

Last edited by David Gardiner; 05-09-2011 at 09:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.