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  #31  
Old 11-29-2017, 03:47 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by toreadorxlt View Post

I have the hardest time welding alloy with gas. 3003 and 1100 rod.

once I start gas welding, its a full on sprint.

I am running on the extreme hot side, and cant get it to slow down).

I've tried the torch quietly whispering, hissing loudly, making no noise... etc...

I have seen videos of Kent and others and it seems like they have way more "play time" than I do.

I imagine a few variable could be at cause here,


I admittedly am not using Kent glasses, but rather a blue filter behind a #5 shade.
Hi Steve,
You've sure given this your full blast, so it might only be a small thing ...?

The 4-5 psi is one method, and on the other hand, simply watching the flame as you twiddle the regs to get the best wide-open hot flame for the tip you have on - while NOT looking as the gauges - is also a good method from our aviation tradition ....

Twisting or flicking the torch up off the puddle, briefly, helps keep temps down. Torch heat (I'm getting ready for my yearly 3-day comprehensive torch workshop right now) is controlled by ... variables:
1) Tip size
2) Torch valve settings
3) Ambient temperature will affect all settings ... (watch out for cold Northern shops/parts in the winter!!)
4) Angle of the torch to the puddle. Vertical down is max and horizontal is minimum, and angles in between give you variation.
5) Torch handling - forth and back along the weld seam, flicking the flame up and down, rotating out of and back onto the puddle ... all help control heat inputs - with all else fixed/set.

And ... aside from heat variables ... if vision is excellent then the details will not escape notice.

end of lecture ...

a few images from my AGW files ...
O_A on .040 3003 .jpghot and fast .050 3003 .jpgM P51 wingroot fairing, BDW.jpgP1080701.jpgGT wh arch L copy.jpgP1130433 fusion copy.jpgrkw O_A welding GT.jpg

okay, back on your heads ...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Aircraft tank, flange weld, 5052.jpg (32.0 KB, 24 views)
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Last edited by crystallographic; 11-29-2017 at 03:49 PM.
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  #32  
Old 11-29-2017, 08:01 PM
AllyBill AllyBill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Motage View Post

AllyBill, I started this thread to show that an old man with fairly inexpensive equipment can learn to gas weld aluminum proficiently with nothing more than tutoring and determination. I'm in agreement with you, Kent and Martin, tig can be used successfully as well, with a learning curve and associated equipment costs. Please don't poo on my newest skill in gas welding and my or anyone's desire to do so. If you want to highlight the benefits of Tig welding start a thread, show your shaped and welded work, in process.
Harsh - Not intentionally pooing on anything, Just watching the age-old steam versus sail argument. I first learned to weld aluminium intercoolers for race cars on OA just as I learned to weld steel wishbones with an old stick set before moving to MIG / TIG so I thought I'd chip my many years of experience into a thread about improving aluminium welding.
I'm retired now but I do have a nice aluminium sculpture in the making so when I work out how to get the pictures off my phone I'll post a few. I've not documented it too well, just a picture here and there to share with friends but enough to show what I've been doing.

Will
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  #33  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:56 AM
Jim Tomczyk Jim Tomczyk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllyBill View Post
That gas welding sorts its own preheat is true enough, but only because it's painfully slow - a quick blast with a butane torch is all that's needed before you arc up with the TIG and only then in extreme cases. Usually a little patience working the flame about and watching it clean the material is all that's needed. No messy flux, just lots of crackling AC bursting the oxide layer off the surface.
As for filler I've never used 4xxx rods. I use 1xxx for soft material and 5xxx for anything else unless it's exotic in which case I make my own filler from thin strips of the native material or fusion weld it so there's no argument about what's what.
Just an aside to the main points being discussed - I am sure that both methods have their own pros & cons and uses dependent upon the job.
To come to the point though - And the job here would be making vintage car panels in .060" 1050 "half hard" (uk specs) - IF you used Tig to weld the panels using the same material filler - if you then annealed the weld area before reverting to planishing and wheeling the joins - wouldn't this still produce the same result as just gas welding it? Or would it still be more prone to cracking as the end resulting metallurgy is fundamentally different?

You may think why? Well why not if it get the job done to the standards required? Additionally some may not have a full OA set up and perhaps for some who are really struggling with OA welding Ali or have time constraints to the learning of gas welding Ali it may provide a solution?
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  #34  
Old 11-30-2017, 08:09 AM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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You guys are right.
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  #35  
Old 11-30-2017, 03:51 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike Motage View Post
You guys are right.

I only started gas welding aluminum because poor penetration with the Lincoln 300 required my welding the back side, too. sigh.
Then I discovered my aluminum tanks no longer leak .... (and I don't have to leak test them, like so many other fab guys - Jim Hume, Nye Frank, Epperle, Rem, Hagemann etc etc ... discovered long ago.)
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2017, 07:21 PM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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I started gas welding aluminum because so many of master coach builders around the world do, including my local hero Mike Kleeves. That was enough for me. So an obscure artist who hasn't shown his work...

Talking the talk or walking the walk?
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Last edited by Mike Motage; 11-30-2017 at 07:29 PM.
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2017, 07:47 PM
AllyBill AllyBill is offline
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How's this for obscure? A pair of fully TIG welded aluminium feet for a life size Californian brown pelican. They can't walk the walk but they look good.
Feet.jpg


Will
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Last edited by Steve Hamilton; 11-30-2017 at 11:37 PM.
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  #38  
Old 11-30-2017, 08:09 PM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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Beautiful work! I would have Tig welded that as well. I can't Tig weld as well as you. But I can gas weld very well and chose that method on my car. A couple weld seams are 50"+, next to highly shaped areas.

I have no desire to change your mind about whichever method is appropriate in whatever situation. Will you allow us to discuss gas welding without your negative interjection?
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Last edited by Mike Motage; 11-30-2017 at 08:30 PM.
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  #39  
Old 11-30-2017, 08:20 PM
AllyBill AllyBill is offline
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Thanks Mike, appreciated.

I thought I was just being stupid about getting the photos off my phone but it seems the plug connector is damaged. My daughter has promised to wifi or bluetooth or something them off her old dad's phone next week so I'll be glad to post some pic's of the process if anyone is interested.

Will
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  #40  
Old 11-30-2017, 08:49 PM
AllyBill AllyBill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Motage View Post
Will you allow us to discuss gas welding without your negative interjection?
If I came across as negative then please accept my heartfelt apologies - that was never my intention.

I figure you're never too old to learn and that's why I came here and I have learned a great deal but sometimes I feel there's an atmosphere of the old ways are the best ways and if you don't agree then you know nothing.
Gas welding aluminium is amazing when it's done right but it's also tricky, messy and difficult to master and not everyone wants that so instead of arguing about it maybe we'd be more productive working out what works best for any given scenario and trying to pass that on to the newbies.

Over to you.

Will
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