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  #21  
Old 06-10-2018, 05:55 PM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Originally Posted by skintkarter View Post
Great project Joel. I know it doesn't have a heap of horsepower, but what about a Lancia Thema 8.32 engine and transmission? Basically a 3.0l Ferrari V8 in a transverse front drive configuration. Sexy looking engine I gather based on the Mondial/308engine. They messed around with it according to Wikpedia and gave it a cross plane crank and smaller valve (4 valve heads). One presumes that a proper flat plane crank could be installed and the heads opened up or swapped out. Plenty of people around with experience of extracting more power from the small Ferrari V8's. Solves the transmission problem with no engineering.
Richard: I looked at a lot of engines but have to admit that one slipped under the radar. While it sounds like an interesting engine, it also sounds rare and thus hard to find/obtain. It also sounds undersized and underpowered for this application but thanks for mentioning it.
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  #22  
Old 06-10-2018, 05:59 PM
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how about a vw w12? this would also give you choices for a transverse gearbox
Neil: I did look into the VW W12, just briefly, and wasn't that impressed. While shorter than a V12, it just felt funky to me, like it was designed by a committee. It didn't feel like an engine design with staying power in the marketplace.
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  #23  
Old 06-10-2018, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Superleggera View Post


Here is a quick example via digital restyling of lengthening the wheelbase on a Miura. A few inches in the engine bay (offsetting the internal firewall/bulkhead rearward for more cockpit space is an option), longer cockpit and 17in and 18in Campy style wheels (versus 15in original).

FYI: One negative of the Coyote engine is width and especially in a traverse configuration. You will need to determine the transaxle setup with engine before you know where the firewall (rear bulkhead) will go. A narrower engine (or head configuration) might allow you some additional cockpit interior space.

On a current de Tomaso Mangusta project for a customer, the Coyote option was skipped and the engine selected was an old school 289 with Gurney-Weslake heads because it was dramatically narrower. (It will get injectors with an ECM to modernize along with ignition system)

Red lines show offsets based upon centerline of rear wheel forward. (top image is "stock")
Mark: thanks a lot for whipping up that illustration! I think it demonstrates well that a plus sized Miura still looks great. I have Photoshop but still need to learn how to use it for things like this.

Just out of curiosity, what % bigger is the bottom car?

You're spot on for the key negative to use a Coyote engine in this car. What's interesting is that the engine/transaxle package length has been a bigger issue in relation to the chassis than engine width. Yes, the Coyote is wide at the heads but by planning for a longer wheelbase it doesn't appear to be an issue, at least on CAD/paper.

I just happen to have a 347 (stroker 289) sitting in the corner of my garage collecting dust. It has even already been modernized with an Aardema SOHC setup. I elected to go with the Coyote anyway just to get the 4 valve heads. Yes, the SOHC 347 is 2.5 inches narrower at the heads but that's only 1.25 inch per side narrower than the Coyote. On a transverse setup, it's only the forward (aka drivers side) head that matters for firewall clearance purposes. I don't anticipate big modifications (i.e. horsepower adders) for the Coyote but if I do then the 4 valve heads will outflow 2 valve heads anyday.
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  #24  
Old 06-10-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by heinke View Post
Neil: I did look into the VW W12, just briefly, and wasn't that impressed. While shorter than a V12, it just felt funky to me, like it was designed by a committee. It didn't feel like an engine design with staying power in the marketplace.
i agree its way shorter than a v12, i thought you could make a 'fake' v12 look attached to the cylinders. it's been around for some years now and still used in the bentley continental/ gt, the audi a8 w12, and the vw phaeton/touareg. but it was just a thought, you have to be happy with it. it's going in your car

on a side note, what about a v10? vw/audi would give you transverse gear box options or mate one to a viper engine?
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  #25  
Old 06-10-2018, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by heinke View Post
Mark:
Just out of curiosity, what % bigger is the bottom car?
Factory wheelbase is 2500mm. 2nd version is 2700mm. @125mm is in the area behind the door to the rear wheel opening. Rest is in the door opening. If one makes the doors too long it gets kind of weird looking in the greenhouse. Use of the larger wheel diameter (not tire) is a visual trick worth emulating.

The Miura rear bulkhead is basically the rear door cut line for the back of the seats. You could extend the interior (seats) and more back into that space depending upon engine utilized and not have any visibility issues.

The biggest challenge is what to do for a windscreen. The center height as measured on the glass is @29.75inches if that helps.
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Last edited by Superleggera; 06-10-2018 at 07:12 PM.
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2018, 09:31 PM
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Post What chassis to use?

When I first started thinking about building a Miura, I hadn’t seen any chassis used for home builds of the Miura except the Fiero. The Miura build using the Fiero required lengthening the wheelbase and ended up using very little of the Fiero in the end. No offense meant to those who’ve used a Fiero as the basis of their car projects but this felt like a very hacky way to go about building a Miura so I eliminated that chassis option right away.

The next alternative I looked at was to build it myself. Hey, I’ve designed and built a tube chassis for the C5 GTO and already have all the tools, including a chassis jig, needed to do it. Alternatively, I could build a chassis from sheet steel like they did at the Lamborghini factory if I got myself a power shear and a big box/pan brake. Hey, I’m always up for learning some new things.

Then I was poking around on the Mad Mechanics forum and came across a car called a Chupacabra. I’d never heard of that car before so I didn’t pay it any attention at first. Then I kept seeing mentions in the recent posts section and words like “aluminum” and “chassis” caught my eye. So being the curious person I am, I clicked into the thread which mostly announced new videos in a series of videos posted on YouTube. What the heck, I took a look at a video, then another, then another…

It turns out the Chupacabra is a car being produced by Charley Strickland of Strickland Racing in Fort Worth, TX. Charley has been building Countach and Diablo replicas for some time and decided to build a similar car but of his own design, the Chupacabra. What really caught my eye was the all aluminum monocoque chassis that he’d designed and was preparing to manufacture for this car. It’s largely made from inch 5052 aluminum sheet cut on a 3 axis CNC router with indexing tabs/slots then fitted and glued together on a chassis table. I was impressed by all the thought that had been put into the thousands of details that go into a chassis for a car of this complexity.

I reached out to Charley and filled him in on my Miura project. I then asked if his chassis could be made to work for a Miura. Charley was already very familiar with the Miura as he’d owned and driven one in his younger days. Both the Chupacabra and Miura are mid-engined but the key difference is longitudinal engine versus transverse.

Charley and I have been iterating through some bulkhead/firewall placement options based on rim/tire sizing, engine/transaxle mockup progress and finally settled on a chassis sized for a 105.5% Miura. The planned wheel base is 104 inches where the regular Miura is 98.5 inches. This should result in a Miura with comfortable legroom fit for me and the space to mount a Coyote V8 transverse. So the answer on what chassis will be used is that I plan to use a Strickland Racing chassis for the Miura project. I plan to post some CAD renderings and pictures for the chassis and Charley plans to post videos as it goes through build process.

So plan in summary for the Miura project is:
  • Plus sized Miura at 105.5% resulting in 104 inch wheel base
  • All aluminum car; monocoque chassis, engine, transaxle, and body all done in aluminum
  • Transverse mounted 5.0L Coyote DOHC 32 valve engine, 8 stack EFI, and 5 speed transaxle
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Last edited by heinke; 06-10-2018 at 09:34 PM.
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  #27  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:51 AM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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I am loving the sound of this project and really looking forward to following along.
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  #28  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:27 AM
bobadame bobadame is offline
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Now this is going to be good!
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  #29  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:16 AM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Now this is going to be good!

I'm in total agreement with Bob on this.


I'm sure you've started thinking about the body. I assume you are either going to have a wireform or other hard buck?


How difficult will it be to license and title? Windshield and side glass?
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  #30  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:59 AM
csdilligaf csdilligaf is offline
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I have started a project that is scaled down rather than scaled up like your Miura. Hum3d.com had a very good looking version of the one I want. I paid to download it and got several formats. One is Rhino CAD version that you can get a 30 day free trial. You can scale it to the size you need and take 2d slices at intervals you choose and export them as 2d DXF files for a cnc router to cut the buck panels. But I looked at the Miura they have and something is just off about it. I think its the contour of the top of the door line into the arch of the front fender. Just a little to flat looking. The car I am working on was a flawless 3d model with the correct shape I wanted. I shrank it to 96% and the wheelbase is what I need now.
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