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  #21  
Old 07-22-2020, 03:23 PM
ojh ojh is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron Naida View Post



I beaded my bomber style seats in the Pullmax. Out of 5052. I would think you could do steel ends in the same fashion.
Very slick. You have the female die doing the stroking?
Beading die design could make a good thread.
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2020, 06:54 PM
Mr fixit Mr fixit is offline
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DIY Home shop question about the terne metal and SS sheet metal.
Do you need to have the SS tinned if you Tig weld vs solder with 304 SS sheet? Does the tinning protect the SS from gasoline? Does 304 SS loose it's rust inhibitor property when soldered or Tig welded?

Lots of questions, but this is a project (gas tank) that I'm in the beginning of starting with mild steel and this seems like a perfect time to ask if I change to SS for better rust prevention, is it a good idea? Hope I'm not derailing the OP post.

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  #23  
Old 07-22-2020, 09:12 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr fixit View Post
DIY Home shop question about the terne metal and SS sheet metal.
Do you need to have the SS tinned if you Tig weld vs solder with 304 SS sheet? Does the tinning protect the SS from gasoline? Does 304 SS loose it's rust inhibitor property when soldered or Tig welded?

Lots of questions, but this is a project (gas tank) that I'm in the beginning of starting with mild steel and this seems like a perfect time to ask if I change to SS for better rust prevention, is it a good idea? Hope I'm not derailing the OP post.

TX
Mr fixit
Chris

Yo Chris,
304 is stainless steel, hardware of 304 is about double the headache/tooling/health load of steel/aluminum. SS, in general, is apart from other fab materials. (Like Ti, only not so fussy.)


Terne is lead/tin coated mild steel sheet, using in US auto production from about 1910 onwards, usually for fuel tank production - although I have worked on a 1912 Marmon Speedster with a complete terne body, riveted and soldered. (This open 2-place roadster was similar to Stutz and Mercer models, of that era.)

Hence, 304 and terne are completely different metal alloys, with different processes for hot joining, forming, annealing, and coating.

Yes, welding stainless migrates the Fe to the surface and hence corrosion results - unless passivation is done.


Stainless was first defined as an alloy group in 1926. It was used for auto trim in the 1930's. There were also stainless airplanes and stainless autos made in the 1930's. Later, we saw the advent of the all-stainless Diners.


Good books are worthwhile reading. One in particular that I singularly enjoyed : "Marks" Or "standard handbook for mechanical engineers." Any edition is great, though I prefer '60's and 70's, hmmmm ... 80's are good too.

Metals are fascinating opaque crystalline solids.

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Last edited by crystallographic; 07-22-2020 at 09:17 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-22-2020, 10:23 PM
Mr fixit Mr fixit is offline
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Hi Crystallographic,

Thanks for the quick response.

So if I get it right the Terne SS is harder to work or form, but does SS being Terne coated make any difference for the finished product? Why is it mentioned if most use the mild steel version by doing it them selves. From what you have posted it sounds like it doesn't matter that much.

I think I've asked this before, so a SS gas tank really is not that different than a mild steel one, and building one with SS and the terne process coating, is for assembly, not really for protection of the tank from gas, water, rust and such.

Just asking to learn, and maybe some other readers might gain knowledge from this too. I'll be looking for the book too.

TX in advance!
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Chris
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  #25  
Old 07-23-2020, 04:07 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr fixit View Post
Hi Crystallographic,

Thanks for the quick response.

So if I get it right the Terne SS is harder to work or form, but does SS being Terne coated make any difference for the finished product? Why is it mentioned if most use the mild steel version by doing it them selves. From what you have posted it sounds like it doesn't matter that much.

I think I've asked this before, so a SS gas tank really is not that different than a mild steel one, and building one with SS and the terne process coating, is for assembly, not really for protection of the tank from gas, water, rust and such.

Just asking to learn, and maybe some other readers might gain knowledge from this too. I'll be looking for the book too.

TX in advance!
Mr fixit
Chris

SS cannot be terne coated, and does not need to be as it has good corrosion resistance after being formed and soldered into gas tanks.


Only mild steel can be or needs to be coated with terne. Terne makes the mild steel easy to solder while adding very good corrosion-resistance at the same time. Plastic (ABS) has replaced terne plate for auto fuel tanks in the US, as well as in other countries. (I've welded ripped ABS tanks using a 275w soldering iron and slices of another ABS fuel tank.)
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  #26  
Old 08-10-2020, 02:56 PM
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Well, heres' my 1st one:
155.jpg
It turned out pretty good, 5 more to go and by then I'll have it down.
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  #27  
Old 08-10-2020, 09:30 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Well, heres' my 1st one:
Attachment 57116
It turned out pretty good, 5 more to go and by then I'll have it down.

Very nice, Mr. Higgins.
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  #28  
Old 08-11-2020, 04:55 AM
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Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Nicely done.
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  #29  
Old 08-11-2020, 07:44 AM
ojh ojh is offline
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Thanks guys, the other 5 went much better.
Now, to create this 'terne' stuff. THATS on todays list to get done and I'm not looking forward to it either, maybe 40 square feet (2 tanks & bits for a 3rd) if I just do it on the one side.
Maybe this is best done in a new thread.
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  #30  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:08 AM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
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My faulty (senior?) memory is telling me that both sides are plated because you always have to anticipate water in the Gasoline/fuel.


Was in my 40's before I found out they pump all grades of fuel/oil through the same pipeline by separating different octanes/diesel with a "slug" of water.


They're good at keeping it separate (for the most part)


FWIW
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