metal problem?

[redoxide]

Ie been making a rear fender for a 30s austin and had nothing but
problems with the material, well thats what Im blaming, not my lack of skill

The original wing was really thin steel which I gauged as 0.8mm or 22gauge so I went out and bought a full sheet of 22g mild steel sheet.

This was horrible stuff to work with, It was hard to shape hard to weld and didnt seem to like being plannished either.

It seemed like the material fought me all the way.

I made the outer edge of the fender and stepped the lip in the bead roller, after that it went down hill.

the top section was lightly wheeled to a shallow crown then as per Daves vid gas welded edge to edge to form the basic fender shape.

I OA welded the edge but despite a good fit, a size one tip 3psi oxy and 3psi acet on a proper flame, the metal really didnt like it. Distortion wasnt a problem but chasing the weld pool was, I can gas weld but this stuff really tested my patience. It was fraustrating because it seemed less like welding and more like filling blow holes.

On top of this there was what I would describe as slag forming in and around the "weld" area a flacky scale type of deposit.

It was a fairly embarasing effort.. which in no way would be suitable for a traight forward plannish.

I cleaned up the weld area being very carefull to cut back the weld only and avoid the surrounding metal as it was thin to start with.

I then used a suitable dolly and shaped the radius around the edge of the fender... It took some bashing to get the edge to form and then once done there were areas around the weld that split, not the weld but the metal either side of it just cracked..

Rewelding the cracks was once again like chasing craters.. NEVER EVER have I had this kind of trouble....It was a nightmare.

So could it be the grade of metal, ? maybee more suited to an application with less forming... perhaps folding ops for things like cabinets etc????

The wing eventually come out ok.. not great... just OK and I was a tad disapointed..

Other stuff that happened during the making of this wing .....

a spark from the grinder set fire to the hose on the acetalene bottle and it burned away fortunately I spotted it switched off the bottle and extinguished the flame... I immediately cut both hoses.. and next day bought some new ones, along with a flash back arrester which I wasnt using previously..

Take care in the shop...

any ideas on the metal selection ?

[A Glause]

Redoxide
I don't know what your welding skills are so don't take this wrong. It sounds to me like you have the torch set with an oxidizing flame. This would cause a hard weld and could cause cracking as it cooled. Or the sheet metal has a high carbon content, this might explain why it was hard to shape. The more carbon added to the steel the harder it will be. When I buy steel I get cold roll, Which has a low percent of carbon. I would use DQ, but it is not stocked in the middle of Nebraska. I hope this will help you some.

Just my thoughts.

Andy

[tdoty]

Commercial-quality cold-rolled generally has a low carbon content. There are all kinds of cold rolled steel though. Kevin H. had some 18ga at MM06 that took one of the jaws right off my Irwin snips - haven't run into anything like that since.

One thought I had was that a #1 might be a bit large of a tip to use for 22ga. I use a 00 or a 000 on 18ga - unless I'm using the 1/2 on my Henrob. I don't think the torch tip would cause the rest of your problems though.

From what I have been told, hot-rolled pickled and oiled is easy to shape and welds pretty nice, but I've never gotten my hands on any to try it out.

Tim D.

[Kerry Pinkerton]

I don't know what you have but plain old 22 ga CR should shape like butter. Welding thin stuff can be a problem.

[John Buchtenkirch]

When taking into consideration the era I think 22 gauge is too thin. I would use at least 20 gauge cold rolled and 19 gauge is more likely factory correct. 22 & 24 gauge is Asian car parts . GOOD LUCK ~ John Buchtenkirch

[HEATNBEAT]

Originally Posted by John Buchtenkirch

When taking into consideration the era I think 22 gauge is too thin. I would use at least 20 gauge cold rolled and 19 gauge is more likely factory correct. 22 & 24 gauge is Asian car parts . GOOD LUCK ~ John Buchtenkirch

My thoughts also. infact I would guess, with out seeing the wing ,that it is a deep draw and the metal was thinned during the forming process.

[cheemo]

Originally Posted by John Buchtenkirch

When taking into consideration the era I think 22 gauge is too thin. I would use at least 20 gauge cold rolled and 19 gauge is more likely factory correct. 22 & 24 gauge is Asian car parts . GOOD LUCK ~ John Buchtenkirch

I also agree. In fact I have a 1950 Austin Sommerset that is made of 18 gauge steel. Being an earlier car I would think that it would be near the same. Auto body steel generally seems to get thicker the older the cars get and thinner the closer to contemporary the vehicle is.

[David Gardiner]

I have worked on a couple of Austin 7s and a couple of other Austins from the 20s and 30s and I have not come across one that was made from 22g. I would have worked in a material that I was comfortable with no matter what the original was made from if I were making a new wing. If you were repairing the original you would have to use the same thickness but because you were making a new one....
Austin was one of the first manufacturers to press panels in England and that may explain why the original was so thin, It could even be a reproduction wing from a later era.

The problem you experienced could be any of the ones people have suggested, I would contact your supplier to find out what they supplied you with so it does not happen again.

Welding 22g steel should not cause you the problems you had, you can weld it with a no.1, nozzle you have to move a lot quicker though.

I can empathise with you, I once ordered my usual ally from my (then) usual supplier and proceeded to make two huge front wings for an Alvis, It formed OK but seemed a bit hard, I started welding the sections together and it welded OK.... Then cracks started to appear around the weld I spent about a week chasing these and re welding... The supplier insisted they had sent me the material that they always sent me, but the spec sheet showed it was not. I never dealt with that company again.

Keep up the good work

[John Buchtenkirch]

Just curious, is it a English Austin or more likely an American Austin Bantam that’s being worked on ? Not that it makes any difference in the gauge of the metal, 22 gauge is too thin for both. Click on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skb1QoQ-nIw for my favorite 6 minutes of an American Austin in action and just maybe a laugh or two . Just as funny is the fact that they used to race Austins back in the day and the 4 cylinder engine had only 2 main bearings on the crank. Obviously horsepower and RPM were much lower back then . They all were kinda neat just because they were so small . ~ John Buchtenkirch
Bantam.jpg

[David Gardiner]

Hi John, they still race Austin 7s here and some of them go like hell, around 100 MPH I guess. Its one of the cheapest ways of getting into vintage racing.