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  #1021  
Old 10-17-2018, 06:52 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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There are a few different ways to smooth out foam. I'm not going to use a hot wire but I'll show you that anyway. I put two pieces of welding filler rod into a soldering gun and strung some .023 MIG wire between the two. Pull the trigger and the wire gets hot enough to cut. The benefit to this method is that it's very clean. No dust at all. BUT, although you can get pretty good result, you'll still need to sand to smooth the form out. Also it's somewhat slower than full attack mode with a grinder.

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Here's a picture of some cuts made by hot wire. Notice there are no snow drifts left behind.

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My preferred arsenal for this size job consists of a razor knife, hack saw blade, mud rasp, and a grinder.

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I have smoothed out the 7 center layers that are permanent. Then I cut out the removable inboard and outboard parts.

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I cut out and glued the removable parts and smoothed them out. After I finish making the left liner, I'll take these off and make new ones for the opposite side. Much easier than making two complete forms.
I've reconsidered using a sheet to draw the ABS down. I wouldn't be able to reheat if I have to. I think what I'll do instead is use strips of fiberglass screen about 8" wide. If the ABS starts cooling before I get it fully laid down, I can reheat with a heat gun in areas that need it. The screen might print the ABS but I'm not too worried about that. You can't see any of the liner from above.

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  #1022  
Old 10-18-2018, 09:08 AM
billfunk29 billfunk29 is offline
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Awesome project Jack. I have learned a lot. Thanks for taking to time to post all the details. When I rough out a surfboard, I use a cheap power planer. It is fast and pretty accurate, but the dust goes everywhere.
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  #1023  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:00 PM
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I found an all cotton towel that will do the job of insulating the foam from heat.

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I also made some tie down bands from fiberglass screen, so I have everything I need to start on these liners except the heaters. Looks like they're still a few days out so I started making the engine closure panels. I did the flanges with a heat gun with the panels clamped to the work bench. The ABS bends easily and cools pretty quickly.

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They fit pretty well. I'll do a trim on them then start welding in mounting tabs next.

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Last edited by Jack 1957; 10-21-2018 at 01:24 AM.
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  #1024  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:48 AM
jpony645 jpony645 is offline
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I always get excited whenever I see you've updated this thread, Jack. This is the most amazing and detailed custom build I've ever seen. It's even more awesome because you're doing it by yourself in a home shop. It far surpasses most of the "custom builds" you see on tv.
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  #1025  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:05 PM
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I still don't have my heaters, they're supposed to be here tomorrow. In the meantime I took care of something I've been meaning to do for some time now. My bead roller has been showing signs of wear from working with 18 ga steel all the time. One problem was that the pillow blocks that hold the shafts were wearing out. They started scoring the shafts a little, but most of the wear was on the bores of the pillow blocks. I also want a more rigid frame. There is still some side to side flex even though it's reinforced. I need to tighten this up because when I start making the stainless trim for the windshield and door glass I will need an accurate and rigid machine. I decided to make a shorter frame from 1/2" steel plate. I cut a slot 7" deep and 1" wide, then drilled some holes in all the right places and welded on a perch for the adjusting screw.

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I don't want to paint this. Paint looks great for about 10 minutes. Once you use the machine, it gets scratched up and scraped and looks like dog meat. I just did a quickie engine turn finish on it. There are a lot of different ways to do this that get better defined finishes than this method will produce, but I'm not going for a Riddler here. It's just a machine.
I had a couple gray 3" scuff wheels around so I'll use them. First, I laid out a 1 1/2" grid to get a full cover pattern. If I do a hit centered on each intersection of vertical and horizontal lines, I will get full coverage.

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These gray scuff wheels are kind of squishy. A grinding disc would work better, but I only had 2" discs and didn't want to be messing with this all day.
I tilted the work table on the drill press about 3 degrees so that the top half of the circle would hit but the lower half wouldn't. (It did anyway because the scuff pad flexes).
Starting along the top, I hit the center of the pad on each intersecting line all the way across, then down to the next row, and worked my way down.

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Next, I wiped the frame down with WD40 and scavenged the parts off the other bead roller and cut the shafts to fit the new frame. Everything fits up well. I want to take the front pillow blocks out and have them bored to accept needle bearings. If they hold up to the load, they'll eliminate the wear problem. If they fail, I'll use oilite bronze bushings.
Hopefully I will get my heaters tomorrow and get these fender liners finished. I need to move on to the gas tank, rear bumper, exhaust, etc... The list gets longer instead of shorter.

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Last edited by Jack 1957; 10-23-2018 at 07:09 PM.
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  #1026  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:33 PM
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Well, as I suspected, it was pretty much impossible to keep such a large ABS panel hot long enough to get it over to the buck, strap it down and pull it into shape before it cooled off. Reheating did help some but where the warmed up portion met the cooled of portion, it would always leave a kink. I tried working the kinks out with a heat gun but I was just a dog chasing his tail. I spent a couple frustrating days fighting with this rear half. I got it to fit the buck but it looked like hell. No way I'm putting that on my car. No way. So, I lost a little time on that but I'm sure now that a panel that big can't be formed well without dedicated equipment.


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So, on to plan B. I'll make them in 3 pieces, no heat required. I'll glue the panels together. I started with the inner vertical panels and made templates. Then I cut them out of ABS. Trimmed them a little and mounted them with push pins. They need to be mounted securely because the mating surfaces where they'll be glued have to be a precise fit. The picture below is the front, inner panel on the left side.

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The inner rear is done. It's difficult to get pictures under here. Where this panel meets the frame rail, I left 3 tabs along the lower edge and warmed them up and bent them 90 degrees. There are 3 push pins holding the panel to the frame.

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In the picture below, you can see that I marked 4 inch increments all the way around the circumference of the vertical panel with tape and numbered them 1 through 19. If you have ever tubbed the back end of a race car, you'll recognize some of this. Tubbing the back end of a race car involves making a flat circular panel and clamping it to the side of the frame rail. Then measuring from that panel outward to the quarter panel every few inches along the circumference to get the contour of the body where the tub will meet it. That's it. It's fairly simple.
On this job, I don't have a flat straight surface on the vertical panel. I have a narrow area at the strut tower and then wider areas fore and aft. Sooo, The way to tackle this is to use a center line and measure inward from the centerline then measure outward from the center line.
I put a long strip of tape up on the inside of the fender, running lengthwise to mark the center line. Then I taped a plumb line to the top of the inner fender where the strip of tape marks the center and located it to line up with the #1 location on the vertical panel. I measured from the plumb line inboard, then from the plumb line outboard. Write down these dimensions. I repeated the process for the other 18 locations.
If I lost you in this explanation, don't feel bad. I've been doing this kind of work for years and rarely have to describe what I'm doing. Different methods of solving a problem pop into my head and I apply them and modify as needed without giving much thought to having to explain what and why.

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The total length of this tub is about 76 inches from lower front, up and over, and down to bottom rear. I taped a couple template boards together to get the length, then snapped a chalk line to locate the center line. Next, I measured and marked 4 inch increments from 1 through 19 and used a square to draw the lines. I used the list of all the measurements I took from the car and applied them to the template; station 1, CL to inboard, CL to outboard. Then on to station 2, etc.
After all these dimensions are plotted out on the template, I just connected the dots freehand with a marker. I can tighten up the fit once the template is in the car by either trimming excess or adding tape along the edge to extend it.
That's as far as I got today. Stay tuned.

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Last edited by Jack 1957; 10-29-2018 at 09:59 PM.
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  #1027  
Old 10-30-2018, 02:57 AM
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You have still learned the limits of the ABS in this exercise so not all waisted. Thanks for sharing too as we all learn from it then.
Can you weld the ABS three parts together using the soldering iron technique?
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  #1028  
Old 11-06-2018, 09:16 PM
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I had to set the front bumper up again temporarily so I could fit the front of the fender liners to the lower lip.

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I salvaged the front pert of the CTS liners because they are fitted with brake cooling ducts. I'll cement these to the new liners. I've added extensions to the front edge of them that fit the contour of the 49 front bumper. (It's actually from a 56 but going on the 49)

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Next, I laid the template for the upper portion of the liner on a sheet of ABS and cut it out textured side will be facing down.

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Before I start stuffing this liner into the car, I wanted to add a detail. I wanted a Cadillac wreath and crest emblem embossed in the lower rear corner. I made a quicky set of dies from pressed wood. I printed out two copies of the emblem and glued them to the two pieces of wood. On one, I cut out the crest and wreath. On the other I cut out the background. I didn't have a chunk of piano hinge around so I just used a couple wood screws to align them. I placed the raised emblem under the panel and heated up the area with a heat gun. When it was pliable I quickly laid the other half over the top and pressed down by hand. Hold it in place for a minute and it's done. There are two mounting tabs at the lower edges that needed to be warmed up and bent to 90 degrees. They will mount to the inner rocker and the side of the frame rail. This will probably never be spotted once the car is done but I know it's there.

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Last edited by Jack 1957; 11-06-2018 at 10:57 PM.
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  #1029  
Old 11-06-2018, 10:27 PM
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This ABS sheet is too thin to weld with hot air or iron type plastic welders so I'm going to use ABS cement. There are two types of adhesives out there. There's glue and cement. They are very different things. Cement actually melts the substrate and allows the material to flow into the other panel. It actually creates a chemical weld. The solvents then disperse and the two pieces are now one. Glue, on the other hand, does not change the state of the substrate. It relies completely on its ability to adhere to it. It can bond dissimilar materials and provide different types of bonds like a firm, rigid bond that doesn't flex. Or a bond that cures but stays pliable, or a bond that relies on the glue being able to seep into the pores of the substrate and form a sort of web of glue that penetrates the substrate before it dries. Think wood glues. There are all types of bonds that glues can make depending on what they are designed to be used on.
I have always used a process that includes Oatey's ABS Cement. The only thing in this can is MEK, Acetone, and ABS resin. The part number is #30999. I say process because there's more to this than just shlopping on some cement.

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The first step is to wipe down only the areas to be bonded with some Acetone on a paper towel. Move fairly quickly and don't hang around in one place too long. The Acetone starts melting the ABS on contact. You can see in the picture below that I have wiped down about 1 inch wide along the left edge. That black that you see on the paper towel is not dirt, it's the ABS that melted while wiping the part down.

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This is the important step. If I were to just go ahead and cement the parts together, I would be at the mercy of weather conditions. If the Acetone in the cement evaporated before it penetrated the ABS there would be an inferior bond and from the outside there would be no way to know until the bond fails.
To eliminate the possibility of a poor bond, I make a primer that is very similar to the composition of the cement except thinner. I put about an ounce of Acetone in a stainless container then throw a chunk of scrap ABS into it. Let it go for a few minutes and take a screw driver or something and start busting up the ABS into smaller pieces. Stir the whole mess and let it go for a few more minutes. I'm after a consistency about midway between water and the ABS cement. I don't want it thin enough to run right off the part, but not so thick that it might flash off before it penetrates. If the ABS pieces are fully dissolved and the slurry is too thin, just add another piece of ABS and start the process again. You might ask why I don't just thin down the ABS cement. Two reasons come to mind. First, the more Acetone you add, the faster the slurry will evaporate. The slurry will have a shelf life measured in minutes rather than months. The second reason is that I know that this works and I can't say that about over reduced ABS cement.

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I stuffed the top of the liner in and brushed on some primer, then a few "tacks" of cement. I need to tack this with it installed in the car so everything fits correctly. It is difficult to get pics in there but I'll try tomorrow.
One more thing I forgot to mention. Do not force dry this cement. You would be defeating the whole purpose of using this method. You want to give the cement as much time as possible to melt the ABS.

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Last edited by Jack 1957; 11-06-2018 at 11:09 PM.
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  #1030  
Old 11-12-2018, 09:57 PM
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I found some time to get back on the project. I finished up the left fender liner and installed it. Where the side panels meet the top panel, there was only a butt weld. These tubs take a lot of torture and if they fail at high speed, it can get ugly fast. I decided to cement a reinforcement strip of ABS along the seem and rivet it on. Overkill but I don't have to worry about it later. I started making the panels for the right side. Same process, same templates just flipped over. This one will go much faster since I know what to do now.

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