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Old 11-14-2018, 07:41 PM
Kerry Pinkerton's Avatar
Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Default Hardening body hammers???

I collect vintage hammers...not to collect but to use. My favorite by FAR is a Hilibrand, It has a nice round crowned face and a 5/8" ball on an long pick on the other side. The balance is just wonderful and I use it more than all my other hammers (50 or so) combined.


I have two of them and one is in like new condition. I saw it on ebay with a buy it now and bought it then. Stan Lobitz has the only other one I've ever seen.


Anyway, the other day, I was doing some hammer and dolly work with a sharp edge heel dolly on the edge of my decklid. The next day, I noticed a bunch of cuts and dings on the hammer face...I guess where I was careless and let part to the hammer face hit the dolly((*&$%^&.



I can clean it up but you only get so many of those before you lose all your hammer weight.


My question is, how hard should a quality body hammer be? Can they be heat treated? In other words are they just cast steel or are they cast tool steel? I'm sure there is a balance between hardness and brittleness desired because you definitely don't want pieces flying off.


Thoughts?
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:09 PM
hot rivet hot rivet is offline
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Don't know about rehardening/case hardening, i was under the impression that the outer "skin" was harder than the core from the cooling effect after manufacture. If it's any consolation i too have damaged a face on my first and favourite Sykes Pickavant hammer though in my case i tapped the jaws of my vice a few times...lesson learnt soft jaws if there is any hammering to bedone in a vice.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:34 PM
steve.murphy steve.murphy is offline
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I think would depend on the carbon content of the steel but I am guessing they would be OK if they are older hammers. I would think maybe similar hardness as leaf springs, around 50 rockwell would be hard enough without being too brittle.
PS- I found a little info here from the balcksmithing guys: https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/322...ering-hammers/
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:05 PM
fciron fciron is offline
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I'm one of the blacksmithing guys. 😁

Most body hammers are going to be drop forged rather than cast, more so as they get older. The easiest way to tell a drop forging from a casting is to look at the parting line. That's usually a horizontal line around the middle of the hammer. A cast hammer has a very thin parting line because the two halves of the mold meet closely. A forging has a thick parting line because there is a gutter around the dies for the extra metal to squeeze into. The parting line usually has vertical scoring because the part is usually separated from the flash in a matching shear die.

Some of my body hammers are finished all over, I suspect they are forged as well. Once you start cleaning up the big forged parting line you might as well do the whole hammer.

I'd recommend against attempting to heat treat a beloved hammer made of unknown steel. There are just too many ways to make it worse, rather than better. (I do suspect that my body hammers are a little softer than my other hammers. Since they're intended to lightly hit broad expanses of metal, I don't worry about it.) Ways things could go wrong: It could crack in the hardening process as a result of being overheated and or being quenched in the wrong medium.It could be too hard after temper and chip or even lose a whole chunok of the face or pien. It could be too soft and get marked up every time you use it.

A simpler solution to protecting your hammers would be tempering your dollies further. Toss them in a 500° oven until they turn blue. Maybe not all your dollies, but a couple to use for those jobs where they might damage a hammer. Unfortunately, I think this might be more effective on higher quality dollies made of real steel than the cheapo cast ones floating around.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:33 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry Pinkerton View Post
I collect vintage hammers...not to collect but to use. My favorite by FAR is a Hilibrand, It has a nice round crowned face and a 5/8" ball on an long pick on the other side. The balance is just wonderful and I use it more than all my other hammers (50 or so) combined.


I have two of them and one is in like new condition. I saw it on ebay with a buy it now and bought it then. Stan Lobitz has the only other one I've ever seen.


Anyway, the other day, I was doing some hammer and dolly work with a sharp edge heel dolly on the edge of my decklid. The next day, I noticed a bunch of cuts and dings on the dolly...I guess where I was careless and let part to the hammer face hit the dolly((*&$%^&.



I can clean it up but you only get so many of those before you lose all your hammer weight.


My question is, how hard should a quality body hammer be? Can they be heat treated? In other words are they just cast steel or are they cast tool steel? I'm sure there is a balance between hardness and brittleness desired because you definitely don't want pieces flying off.


Thoughts?
Kerry
In order to use and be able to keep a good hard face on your hammer you need to use a forged hammer. The hammers you mention could be cast(steel or iron?) There for even though the face has been hardened, the core of the material still a bit soft, which mean that it will mark when used on a harder material. A way to avoid this (with a soft core hammer) would be to use a softer dolly . This is the reason I use a cast dolly , but the cast dolly is not just cast, it has some other material in it, hard enough not to mark too much, and when it does I simply grind it down smooth again.

So the answer would be use a cast hammer(soft core) with a softer cast iron dolly, or a forged hammer with a harder dolly .

Here an example.. I know and I was taught well not to do it BUT.... sometime I use my good planishing hammer to drive a set or chisel down and my hammer does not shows any marks, simply because it's forged with good material then hardened . Unfortunately to get this type of hammer you will be paying about $80 to $100 for it
Peter
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Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 11-15-2018 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:25 PM
Essexmetal Essexmetal is offline
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Kerry,
Wonderful stuff and a lot better than cyanide salts for case hardening.


They tell you all you need to know to make sure you don't go too deep or too hard. As we all know chunks missing from a hammer face are worse than dents.

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Old 11-16-2018, 08:03 AM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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Rick, I believe you can even get a certain amount of case hardening with good old mild steel with Kasenit, I’m thinking tool steel isn’t necessary ??? Body hammers are a tuff call anyway with their unsupported perimeters, if you make them too hard they crack. Some of the older hammers had better support for the perimeter edges, see photo of an early Plumb.

Kerry, are you sure that favorite hammer is a Hilibrand ? I did a search and couldn’t find anything on Hilibrand hammers or hammer company. There is a Herbrand hammer that sounds like your description. Just wondering ~ John Buchtenkirch
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Old 11-16-2018, 01:17 PM
fciron fciron is offline
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The kasenite instructions call for a water quench, even if you quench in oil you still are adding carbon to an unknown steel and have no idea what the effects of your heat treatment will be.
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Old 11-16-2018, 01:46 PM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Buchtenkirch View Post
...
Kerry, are you sure that favorite hammer is a Hilibrand ? I did a search and couldn’t find anything on Hilibrand hammers or hammer company. There is a Herbrand hammer that sounds like your description. .

You're correct. It is a Herbrand BF-1 to be exact. Dan Shady has a perfect one that still has the details on it. In addition to 'Herbrand', it says 'Dropped Forged'.


Here is a photo:


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/840062136715876164/
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Old 11-19-2018, 12:28 PM
norson norson is offline
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Here's mine. I haven't decided on the handle yet.

PB180571.jpg
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Last edited by Steve Hamilton; 11-19-2018 at 01:40 PM.
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