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  #21  
Old 11-18-2018, 10:04 AM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Hey Peter I watched that video yesterday a couple times through - that is some great info to not shrink the sides that will be welded. Thank you

I'm going to make a video showing in more detail the challenges and problems I've encountered so far and maybe you guys can advise more. I'm sure this is nothing new to you all. It's a pretty common shape.
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  #22  
Old 11-18-2018, 11:14 AM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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https://youtu.be/gnz_hSL9RG8

Had my wife help me shoot a quick video to show you guys the project.

I forgot to mention on the back edge of the panel - early on when I first shrank it it was teetering left and right on the highest point of the backbone, so I actually stretched that area to help everything lay down. Then on the left and right corners of the back edge (not the weld joint sides) I shrank it to help pull it down. Maybe it needs more? I'm using a harbor freight Lancaster style shrinker stretcher. If I have time later this evening I'll make some tucking forks.
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Last edited by RB86; 11-18-2018 at 11:19 AM.
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  #23  
Old 11-18-2018, 12:09 PM
Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
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Just watched your video. You definitely need to shrink the ends and a bit along the top edge. Shrinking the ends will bring the panel down on the ends and give a bit more body and transition to the lump in the center. Shrinking the top edge will remove the ruffles. Over shrinking the top is no problem in that you can then wheel the edge and bring it back up. I often over shrink and then bring it back. It is easier to do that than to have to go back into a near finished panel and shrink specific spots.
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  #24  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:56 PM
skintkarter skintkarter is offline
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Hi Rob. I said there would be better advice from here

One thing I've noticed on your buck is that your backbone looks a little flat at the top, making the transition between the stations difficult.

I always try to remember when I'm raising a shape that if a section is touching the buck, it needs more shape at that point, or the surrounding area needs shrinking to bring it down.

As I think that this is a practice piece for you, Is it possible to doctor the buck - i.e. bring the adjacent stations down a little to give more shape to the top? Probably doesn't need much.

In terms of shrinking the overstretched edges, I'd be looking at using a tucking fork and a stump. The Lancaster is a pain to use on an edge once the edge has some shape.

Personally if it were my practice piece (and bearing in mind that I'm a newbie at this too) I'd be trying to gently add more shape in the middle and then wheel out the lumps.

Don't be afraid to wreck the piece and start over - you will close in on the shape many times faster having learnt from mistakes on the prototype.
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  #25  
Old 11-18-2018, 05:06 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Rob
After watching the video I can see that the back edge is not shrunk enough
So this is what you must do....
Put the panel on a sand bag and block about two inches in from the back edge and try to blend the blows towards the center of the panel that will create some tuks on your back edge ...shrink them down ...that will shorten the back edge and give you more bulbous shape in the middle of the panel... after that you might have to bend the back edge on your knees in order to get it going around the buck again ... but this time the panel should sit down on the buck where you have showed been still away from the buck .. in another words ... I can see that the back edge still too long, it needs to be shorter, then needs to be bent over your knees to make it fit around the buck
Peter
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  #26  
Old 11-18-2018, 05:07 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is online now
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Rob. A special procedure for you. You have to shorten the fibers. And drop the mallet.
No bam bam, sensitive and watch what is happening.

Sorry, Peter, we did gaves a message at the same time. My hand hurts from the drumstick ... Your path with the mallet and the experience are admirab.

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Last edited by Jaroslav; 11-18-2018 at 07:05 PM.
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  #27  
Old 11-19-2018, 01:53 AM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Thank you all so much for the input. I've learned a ton this weekend and it's so exciting. I will keep at it and keep you all updated. Thanks again.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:50 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Just wanted to show a little progress.

Have not been able to source a good log to make a shrinking stump yet, but I made myself some tucking forks and they've been most helpful.

I haven't really spent any time in the middle portion I took a break from that and started to make the front section. I put tucks in it and then just shrunk it on the floor.
IMG_20181120_174225607.jpg
Making progress and learning.
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  #29  
Old 11-22-2018, 05:08 PM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is online now
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I’m better at showing someone the shape – form idea than writing to explain it. The bicycle fender in all 3 of my photos has the same shape……. only different forms. The first photo is factory stock. In the second photo I pulled the sides apart to soften the side to side crown, those with sharp eyes may notice the tip to tail distance has closed up a bit. In the third photo I twisted opposing corners into each other. Because no shrinking or stretching was involved all 3 have the exact same shape but are formed up differently.> >

Swell but now you are thinking what does this have to do with shaping sheet metal ??? Many times you will find you don’t have the exact die face radius or hammer face radius you need to do a job but you can deflect (reform) the panel to work with your tooling or hammer face and then after adding shape reform it back to the form that is closest to the part you are trying to make. In other cases the panel may not fit into the throat of your E-wheel, bead roller or whatever but many times you can make it fit by reforming it. As you get close to finishing a panel it may not fit the buck correctly, then I always try changing the form a bit just because it’s the quickest at that point.>>
> >
I agree with everyone, you need more shrinking on the edges so you really need to call some tree pruning service and get that tree stump. I also agree with Peter, the ball peen or whatever you are using has too tight of a radius to be on top of controlling your metal shaping. Also think about this……… your pattern is showing good fit up by using directional shrinks but you are trying to shape that fender with numerous radial stretches . ~ John Buchtenkirch >>
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  #30  
Old 11-24-2018, 10:37 AM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Thank you John - I have since remade the center piece following some steps Peter had posted on the other thread I started about longer tuck shrinking.

It really is one of the more amazing parts of the process - the multiple forms a piece will allow you to arrange it in after it has shape in it. Sometimes I'll feel like it's so far away, then some diagonal twisting over my knees and suddenly its really close (or vice versa).

Truly a bigger learning curve than I realized. Ive watched the clips of Ron covell on YouTube making a fender a dozen times, and like all the other great metal shapers, he makes it look so easy. I initially followed his method which consisted of shrinking the inner and outer curved edge with a Lancaster style shrinker, followed by a lot of wheeling. Ultimately it seems my fender just needed so much more shrink and stretch than those processes allowed. So now Ive begun to incorporate the mallet and tucking forks although I can't wait to try stump shrinking which I suspect will be a fair amount easier.
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