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  #31  
Old 11-24-2018, 05:20 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Here's another video updating you all.

https://youtu.be/Mrn7VRT3TaE

Unfortunately it got cut short but it gets the point across.

The issue I've had is I've shrunk the back edge so much that it's created some doming the length of the panel about 3 inches from the backbone running front to back. I know I could stretch it out on the English wheel some but I still haven't gotten enough shrinking to get my right and left joints to lay down on the buck tightly.

Sometimes in an effort to pull those left and right joints down on the buck I might add 2 or 3 tucks on that backbone just on the corner and 2 or 3 on the other corner. It just seems that if I shrink much more I'll create a problem maybe. I don't know.
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  #32  
Old 11-24-2018, 07:24 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Rob
Question for you....
are you stump shrinking ..or fork shrinking? (It does make a difference

Now do this.. grab the panel by the top with booth hands (where the tucks are) put it over your knees, and bend it over your knees just a little but very consistently along the length of the panel. This action will OPEN the panel and make the sides touch the buck, BUT,BUT,BUT. the top of the panel will now be AWAY from the buck, and it will show where is STILL LONG and hollow or (flat) about from the middle of the panel upwards. So... go on the sand bag and BY KEEPING THE PANEL OPEN between TOP AND BOTTOM by using your hands and elbow (just like my pics) block those flat areas (very close together and evenly)... once you done that ..back on the stump and shrink the tuck (with a hammer NOT WITH THE FORK) that now have been created by re blocking the center while the panel was open, this action will close the panel some what BUT if not closed enough, simply manipulated it and , close again to the right shape. Do this task again and again till the panel (top edge and sides are down on the buck.If the bottom of the panel by now is touching the buck too tight? Simply stretch the very edge to let some shape out, somewhere between the very edge and where I have written BLEND
When I watch your last video I can clearly see that there is not enough shape on the panel...................
To test this .... is very simple

OPEN PANEL sides down on the buck, and top and bottom up+ flat middle

CLOSED PANEL (top bottom down sides up
Cheers
Peter

PS you said ..... kind of start dome up ..
well mark the panel all along about where the tips of you finger are, about 20/25 mm down from where the existing tucks are, ( that should be about where ''start dome up problem is'' when the panel is open that is where you need to do the extra blocking this action WILL DRAW OUT the dome up problem
You also said ...it' touching here and touching there
You will find that when you open the panel to do the task above, the panel will have more shape than before on the center,there for.. if too close by then? when you opened to suit the buck and the sides will be down automatically.
You said.... try to stretch the panel outwards but still does that..... OPEN THE PANEL OVER YOUR KNEES AND BLOCK THE CENTER AGAIN while keeping the panel open THAT WILL DRAW YOUR HIGH SPOTS ON THE END OF TUCKS AND PUT SAME MORE SHAPE IN THE CENTER manipulate it close (if still to open) do the task over (open block open block and at the end it should be very close REMEMBER.. MANIPULATION of the panel is IMPORTANT
YOU said almost if I shrunk it too much..... NO YOU HAVE NOT do the tusk above and shrink some more( mainly at the two ends ON THE TOP EDGE ONLY NOT WHERE THE WELD IS GOING TO BE!!!
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Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 11-24-2018 at 08:08 PM.
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  #33  
Old 11-24-2018, 09:21 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Peter -

I don't have a stump yet. Haven't been able to source a hardwood stump but I need to. Maybe I can buy some pressure treated 4x4 beams and stack them together to make a temporary shrinking stump. So far I've just been shrinking with the tucking fork.

I'll follow your instructions and get back. The panel has so much shape to it now it's hard to fully open up - that domed section next to the tucks is quite strong, even with me pushing my weight on it on the ground.

I'll keep on going and update and as always thank you for your help sir.
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  #34  
Old 11-24-2018, 10:29 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB86 View Post
Peter -

I don't have a stump yet. Haven't been able to source a hardwood stump but I need to. Maybe I can buy some pressure treated 4x4 beams and stack them together to make a temporary shrinking stump. So far I've just been shrinking with the tucking fork.

I'll follow your instructions and get back. The panel has so much shape to it now it's hard to fully open up - that domed section next to the tucks is quite strong, even with me pushing my weight on it on the ground.

I'll keep on going and update and as always thank you for your help sir.
Rob
To hard to open ?? STAND ON IT!.... that will open the panel .

Then do the task required.............

Now there is your problem...... YOU MUST block and shrink on the wood stump, the tucks you are making with the tuck fork are too short and put too much shape next to them. In another words... you need to stretch and shrink at the same time
Peter
PS a tuck fork is mainly used when you need the panel to turn very sharply around a corner.... NOT suitable for what you are doing
Please watch my video again, the part where I am helping one of the students closing a tuck
Peter
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Metalshaping tools and dvds
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Metalshaping clip on youtube
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM
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  #35  
Old 11-24-2018, 11:25 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Good info. I gave up for tonight. Frustrated, Sore arm, cold garage and likely annoyed neighbors

Believe it or not I put the panel flat on the ground with the curve upward and actually put all my weight on it, I weigh just under 200 pounds and the thing wouldn't budge! I even bounced on it. So I put it in the English wheel with an 8 inch radius lower wheel and did my best to open up that dome.

Right now, with it as open as I can, the leftmost station fits properly. The back edge rides the backbone pretty well, and then the next stations don't touch, even if I fold the panel down on them.

Something tells me I might have to make this section a 3rd time but when I get a proper stump. I have tuck fork shrunk the back edge probably 40 tucks total. Probably explains why that sucker is STRONG.

All in the name of learning. Thanks for your patience Peter. Just one of those things that's so much easier to learn standing side by side.

Maybe tomorrow I'll try and open the panel up on the English wheel more by running a flat wheel on the shrunk area. IMG_20181124_222613830.jpg

IMG_20181124_222627747.jpg
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  #36  
Old 11-24-2018, 11:56 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Peter do you block out mostly on the hollow of the stump or on the sand bag? I have a 50lb bag of sand that I've been doing all the blocking on.
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  #37  
Old 11-25-2018, 07:56 AM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB86 View Post
Peter do you block out mostly on the hollow of the stump or on the sand bag? I have a 50lb bag of sand that I've been doing all the blocking on.
Rob
All the main blocking to get the tuck going are done on the wood stump I also close and lock them in on the wood stump, then when it start to take some shape I go onto the bag and ''clean'' some of the ruff stuff then back on the stump with some more stretching and shrinking then again on to the bag.
ONE THING THAT WILL HELP YOU IS HOW TO SHAPE THE HOLE ON THE STUMP. and here it is.................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQNFpFUdsKQ

So . to make a tuck and shrink it down use the wood stump, to stretch deeper on the panel and clean up ,use the sand bag, always use the blocking hammer.
When you have the panel looking half OK (shape wise) use a large dolly on a stand + a wooden mallet smooth same of the biggest walnuts out, then go on to the wheel
Peter
PS if one side fits on the buck and the other does not.... simply shrink that side at the top flange a bit more ..If I remember right the panel has a sharper downwards side than the other
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Metalshaping tools and dvds
www.handbuilt.net.au

Metalshaping clip on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh91hodPg

Making Monaro Quarter panel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM

Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 11-25-2018 at 08:11 AM.
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  #38  
Old 11-25-2018, 09:11 AM
fciron fciron is offline
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Rob,

I think you said something earlier about getting to the wood guys before it was cut to firewood length. Quit worrying about the perfect stump and grab a chunk that's only 18" long for now.

While you're waiting for the perfect stump you're making it harder to do the actual work. Voltaire said "The perfect is the enemy of the good." and I think it's applicable here.

(I always turn to classical philosophers for metal shaping advice, usually Zeno.��)

Heck, you're already doing the shrinking on the floor, even a short stump would make the work easier. Grab two short pieces and put them together with a few dowels if you're feeling sassy.

(If you can catch a tree crew on site they're usually happy to leave a long chunk for you because it means several hundred pounds they don't have to load on the truck. Be aware that green wood weighs a lot more than dry wood, loading can be as issue.)
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Last edited by fciron; 11-25-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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  #39  
Old 11-25-2018, 11:45 AM
Kerry Pinkerton's Avatar
Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Rob, think about making a baseball bat hammer.



http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showt...all+bat+hammer

Cut the big end off about 14-16" back and put the bottom part as the handle at the balance point...not the center. Round off the cut end on a sander. That is my go to stretching hammer. Of course, I'm doing it wrong...
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  #40  
Old 11-25-2018, 11:56 AM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Well gentlemen let me introduce you to my oak twins

Holy mackerel these things were heavy! Someone posted on Facebook marketplace they just cut down an oak and free wood for whoever wanted it.

I got a couple chunks about 2 feet wide by 2 feet tall.

Got my truck stuck in the mud and the guy was nice enough to pull me out. All in the name of metal shaping haha.
IMG_20181125_113021635.jpg
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