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  #21  
Old 03-30-2019, 12:47 PM
Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
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I would agree with Peter. What you have appears to be mostly form not shape. By shrinking the corner (shape), you should be able to bend down (form) the straight sides without blocking them. Blocking the sides is stretching which, if a straight line, is not required. Try making the part with a piece of heavy paper. Cut and tuck the corner on paper and watch what is happening to sides and flat top. If the top gets a bit hollow, you can gently planish the area to bring it up.
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  #22  
Old 03-30-2019, 07:38 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Originally Posted by norson View Post
I think your main problem is you are drawing your lines, banging the hell out of it and then expecting to still adhere to your lines. Forget the lines. Form the panel including the smoothing, THEN draw your line at the tipping point based on the formed (upper?) portion of the piece. This may mean placing the dished portion on the table and mark the piece one or two inches above the table. then tip the edge at the line and it will be flat.
Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to understand just what you mean...

So basically, take a 2" pipe radius, form the sides over it, tuck the corner and hammer that, then tip the edges?

The hard part is, I have no buck to know the information - where exactly the bends go and then the flange after that. The only piece of info I have that I have to match exactly is that flange template. I don't know how I'd have the dished part first and then accurately tip the exact flange pattern.
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  #23  
Old 03-30-2019, 07:39 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Mullin View Post
I would agree with Peter. What you have appears to be mostly form not shape. By shrinking the corner (shape), you should be able to bend down (form) the straight sides without blocking them. Blocking the sides is stretching which, if a straight line, is not required. Try making the part with a piece of heavy paper. Cut and tuck the corner on paper and watch what is happening to sides and flat top. If the top gets a bit hollow, you can gently planish the area to bring it up.
Thanks. I might just have to do that. Paper is cheaper than metal isn't it!?
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  #24  
Old 03-30-2019, 07:53 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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I wanted to share my 3rd attempt with you guys for what it's worth.

This time I drew out my flange pattern, then beat it with a flat face hammer on a flat post dolly to prestretch the material so it wouldn't tuck on the other side of my blocking. I also wheeled and stretched the main body area. Then I blocked inside my line, focusing mainly on the corner, then again stretched the outside flange and main body area. Basically I started the tipping from the beginning and kept stretching the adjacent sides of the blocking path.

So far it is the closest I've gotten (although not stretched enough for the 2" radius).

Thank you all for the replies. Forming the panel rather than shaping never occurred to me so thanks for that idea. I'm trying to wrap my head around working in "reverse"....that is starting with the "bowl" and tipping the edge and being accurately on the flange path.

The pic is attempt #2 above attempt #3
IMG_20190330_195049210.jpg

IMG_20190330_195210838.jpg
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  #25  
Old 03-31-2019, 06:32 AM
Oldnek Oldnek is offline
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G'day Rob.
It may seem like a challenging piece, but don't over complicate it.
What you have done is pretty good, the easier way is this.....

corner.jpg

Mark your piece out, paying more attention to the rolled area.
Shrink in the yellow zone, (just use a Stump) making sure you don't completely flatten the tucks out to the edge of the flange zone. Marked in orange (as you will need this extra for the stretch later on the flange.)
Roll the Red lines, using pipe or similar, finish dressing out you yellow area, to the shape you need going by your profile, once your happy with that. Place your piece down on edge to scribe the line for the flange height and measure your flange width. Then final trim your flange after you fold it over, you will need to stretch the radius of the flange.
It will be more accurate if you scribed it flat then trim it to size and then mark your fold flange lines.

Your doing well, and credit to you for keep having a go, learning all the way.
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  #26  
Old 03-31-2019, 11:51 AM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Thanks for your picture and reply john.

Gosh, it's funny how all of the more experienced can see the difference in shape vs form in the process of a shape. It just plain old did not occur to me to even think that way. But that's what it's all about. Identifying shapes and knowing the process.

If I have some time I'm going to try the suggestions here today.

Thanks
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  #27  
Old 04-01-2019, 05:23 AM
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Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Have a go at saving the first one too, nothing to lose but knowledge can be gained.
The way I would go about saving it is hang it over a stake vertically with only the the area near the flange on the stake. Then hammer only the area right by the flange to stretch that area. Stay away from the radiused part.
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  #28  
Old 04-01-2019, 09:07 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojeep View Post
Have a go at saving the first one too, nothing to lose but knowledge can be gained.
The way I would go about saving it is hang it over a stake vertically with only the the area near the flange on the stake. Then hammer only the area right by the flange to stretch that area. Stay away from the radiused part.
Thanks - I tried that and ran it back and forth on the wheel to "release" it. It didn't want to straighten out for whatever reason. . Id be curious to run it through a power hammer of some sort to see if it relaxed. I hit it a lot on the dolly with a planishing hammer and it remained the same.
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  #29  
Old 04-02-2019, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB86 View Post
Thanks - I tried that and ran it back and forth on the wheel to "release" it. It didn't want to straighten out for whatever reason. . Id be curious to run it through a power hammer of some sort to see if it relaxed. I hit it a lot on the dolly with a planishing hammer and it remained the same.
when you ran it through the wheel what did you do? did you just run it back and forth?

try it again with the flattest lower wheel you have, don't have much pressure but pull up and out to stretch the sheet like pizza dough lol, do that a few times and see how you go.
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  #30  
Old 04-02-2019, 08:39 AM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilb View Post
when you ran it through the wheel what did you do? did you just run it back and forth?

try it again with the flattest lower wheel you have, don't have much pressure but pull up and out to stretch the sheet like pizza dough lol, do that a few times and see how you go.
Peter had mentioned doing that but I was a little confused which way to pull..

I ran it back and forth with my flattest wheel running down the side, while the large portion hung downward. Then I pulled it up into the large wheel as I wheeled. I used a fair amount of pressure.

So when you say outward....do you mean grab the long side that's hanging down and pull that outward as to almost unfold the edge?

To explain it easier let's think of an updside down "L" .
I had the short side in the wheel and I was pulling that short side up into the upper wheel as I wheeled. Is that what you mean or grab the long end on the side and pull that outward as to unfold it?

*On a side note, does pushing a piece into the lower anvil while wheeling or pulling it into the upper anvil achieve different things? I've been a little afraid to run a piece through it and make it FUBAR
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