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Old 05-05-2020, 09:03 AM
sru_tx sru_tx is offline
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Default Hollow upper wheel

I' m curious about the construction of a hollow upper wheel. In the past I've seen pics of some but for the life of me, I can't find them now. I've done all kinds of searches on the forum, keywords such as "hollow upper" "welded upper" "fabricated upper" but I don't see it.

Any suggestions for what to search for?

I recently finished my imperial clone and am using my Northern Tool wheel and anvils (similar quality as HF). Eventually I would like to replace them and am curious about the hollow upper.

thanks
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Old 05-05-2020, 12:29 PM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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I don't understand what you mean as a 'hollow upper'. Some folks try and true a steel caster wheel which typically have a central rib. When I started out back in 2001, commercially available rollers weren't commonly available. Joe Andrews started his first company CNC SOLUTIONS around 2002 or so. His first upper wheels only had about a 1/2" relief cut in on each side. I have one of those in my collection.
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Old 05-05-2020, 12:34 PM
norson norson is offline
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You may be thinking of the wide wheel that Cass originated. It is a 6 X6 inch wheel he built for forming large low crown panels.
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:51 PM
sru_tx sru_tx is offline
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So let me back up. Typically the upper wheel starts from large round stock and is turned on a lathe. To reduce spinning mass/inertia much of the disc is removed leaving a central rib up the middle.

Alternatively, a fabricated upper wheel would be constructed out of a set of circular discs and wrapped (I guess) I'm not sure how many discs, how it's wrapped, etc. hence my curiosity.

I believe at least one of Wray's wheels is built this way. If memory serves me correctly (which my wife says 'it most certainly does not!' ) I thought I had seen someone document a build of such a wheel on the forum.

thanks
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Old 05-05-2020, 04:05 PM
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The upper that Cass made was hollow.
He used a section of pipe or tubing and counter bored the ends to make a small step. Then used just two disks as sides. Counter bore for bearing o.d. So the bearings don’t fall in.
I think that he said that the outside was turned on his lathe on centers. The surface is 6 inch wide and I think a taper of 1/16 th inch from middle to edge.
Not sure if there was a flat, but he usually uses full radius for his lowers.

Steve
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Old 05-05-2020, 05:51 PM
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I don't recall anyone posting HOW to build such a wheel. I know Wray made his early uppers out of large bearing shells he'd found in a salvage yard. He has finally got his own ewheels to market and it's obvious that the uppers are built from a hard outer ring and sides of something else (aluminum??), They are 9x5" and have no side relief. Since they would weight a ton if solid steel, they must be hollow.

At one time, I acquired an old welding tank that was being scrapped. I wanted to make post dollys out of the bottom and top but someone told me they were made from 4140. What that means is that someone COULD, slice the tank to the desired ring, heat treat, press aluminum sides, bore for bearings, and then hard cut the surface for trueness. That would take a real machinist with better tools and knowledge than I have. It would also probably be more labor intensive than turning them out of a billet of 4140 on a CNC.
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Old 05-05-2020, 06:23 PM
sru_tx sru_tx is offline
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Thanks Kerry and Steve.
Yes, I haven't been sleeping well lately and I can't stop my brain at that point.

It's probably more work than the payoff (the juice isn't worth the squeeze) for anything less than 4" wide wheels. It was more of a curiosity and wondering how they were made. I thought I'd seen it documented here. maybe I'm mistaken. gasp.

thanks
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Old 05-05-2020, 06:31 PM
steve.murphy steve.murphy is offline
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I recall something about taking a slice from a unserviceable oxygen tank and machining it to accept two end plates but I don't recall much more than that.
I also recall the wall thickness was thick and the steel was 4130-ish?
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Old 05-05-2020, 10:48 PM
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I'll have to check tomorrow, but I believe it is about 3/8" wall. Wray is on facebook. He might tell you how thick the sidewalls are. I assume the ring is put in a three jaw and the inside trued. Then the sides could be turned a but oversize, the ring heated, and pressed over the sidewalls. As it cools it would get tighter. Once it is a unit, it can be drilled for bearings and then turned ON the bearings to true and finish the outside.

That's the way I'd approach it but I'm no machinist...I just make chips. If I wanted to make one, I'd hire it out.
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Old 05-06-2020, 01:58 AM
skintkarter skintkarter is offline
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I tumbled across a fabricated upper the other day when surfing for lower anvil step turning calcs. Chap had indeed fabricated a stainless wheel with a rolled outer ring and 10g sides. I think that it was in some way associated with Wray?
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