All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > General Discussion
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41  
Old 11-09-2013, 05:04 PM
Maxakarudy Maxakarudy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Origin of the wheel, UK
Posts: 630
Default

Hi Mitch,

Did Geoff weld horizontally or vertically when you were watching him?
__________________
Cheers
Martin

No matter how clever you think you are, stupidity is always one step ahead!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-09-2013, 05:19 PM
Khe Sanh's Avatar
Khe Sanh Khe Sanh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxakarudy View Post
Hi Mitch,

Did Geoff weld horizontally or vertically when you were watching him?
Crickey Martin, that's testing the old memory, I think it was just horizontal. Can I ask why?
__________________
Mitch
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-09-2013, 09:35 PM
sblack sblack is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 382
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z5Roadster View Post
Hi Scott thought I would add this quote from Geoff's 5 day course, this is part of day 2 but only a guide because he will tailor the course to suit the trainee's individual needs

"You will then practice butt welding with one to one supervision until you are capable of producing a first class weld that has no metal added with filler rod, and so does not require grinding. This results in a beautiful join that can be planished to a smooth finish and in so doing relieve the welding stresses in the material.

This welding usually takes about half an hour per person regardless of previous experience so the rest of the day is spent shaping and wheeling
."
Aha! I can never get the metal to flow without filler rod. Probably my joints aren't as tight as they need to be. Need to try harder. Thanks.
__________________
Scott in Montreal
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-10-2013, 05:28 AM
Maxakarudy Maxakarudy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Origin of the wheel, UK
Posts: 630
Default

Hi Mitch,
I've met coacbuilders that don't use filler rod and they've told me that they weld vertically from top to bottom. It makes sense as the molten pool wants to fall away, so welding vertically would be an advantage as the metal would be flowing into the joint.
Welding horizontally with filler rod takes skill, the filler rod is doing 2 things, filling the joint and cooling the weld area, so reducing the opportunity for the metal to fall out, that's the penetration and surface build up that has to be worked on, hence creating work.
If you ain't adding filler rod, this means you have less metal finishing and you can wheel the weld area to blend the panels together, quicker than filing and planishing, the downside is more risk of a joint failure, unless you get it spot on. Obviously Geoff has got this sussed what ever way he welds.
__________________
Cheers
Martin

No matter how clever you think you are, stupidity is always one step ahead!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-10-2013, 05:57 AM
Khe Sanh's Avatar
Khe Sanh Khe Sanh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 188
Default

Pretty sure he used a slither of the Ali as filler rod. Here I was thinking I paid attention.
__________________
Mitch
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11-10-2013, 06:28 AM
Maxakarudy Maxakarudy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Origin of the wheel, UK
Posts: 630
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khe Sanh View Post
Pretty sure he used a slither of the Ali as filler rod. Here I was thinking I paid attention.
Sometimes you have a filler rod ready, just in case it needs a little, this applies to steel and ali. I did the course a Contour Autocraft, altough they used tig with great results, no joint failure, they do run up the backside with the Ali to be sure. I think most people agree less filler rod the better. I must do a few samples and show them.
__________________
Cheers
Martin

No matter how clever you think you are, stupidity is always one step ahead!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-10-2013, 09:05 AM
Z5Roadster's Avatar
Z5Roadster Z5Roadster is offline
MetalShaper of the Month July '14
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Barnstaple UK (Devon)
Posts: 798
Default Chinese wheeling

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMcElhinney View Post
This is a tricky exercise that requires some downward pressure to be applied to the panel whilst "Chinese wheeling" the reverse.
Can someone explain, it's not a turn Iv'e heard before ?
__________________
Tom Poulter

Follow the Dream - Sideways - - But don't fall-off the edge

'good to know you guys care'
https://ctrestorations.com/
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-10-2013, 10:17 AM
PaulMcElhinney PaulMcElhinney is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Birmingham, UK.
Posts: 19
Default Chinese wheeling.

I understand that it's a term for turning your panel upside down and wheeling it inverted.

Concerning welding one important point that Geoff made was this. I have in fact read it elsewhere on this forum. He explained that it's important to wheel panels so that they naturally assume a shape and are not "stressed" ie being held in a certain postion. Geoff explained that if panels are stressed welding will increase their chances of distorting.
__________________
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-10-2013, 04:27 PM
ferguson ferguson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: N. Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 123
Default

there are 5 video's of geoff making a lotus panel on the wheel-including 'chinese' wheeling.search youtube.title is 'how to english wheel a complex curve'
__________________
Ferguson
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-10-2013, 05:21 PM
Frank.de.Kleuver's Avatar
Frank.de.Kleuver Frank.de.Kleuver is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Eindhoven (The Netherlands)
Posts: 771
Default

The lotus panel with return in the videos Bill Longyard took explain the wheeling upside down. When the return is massaged in some downward pressure is needed in the opposit direction. The flat upper needs to be at the underside at that point since you'r making a return.

The shape in shape out excersize and making the return are the basics you need according to Geoff. These are all the shapes that can be found in a vintage car. Hand manipulating the panel between wheelings is the most important thing I learned. Quoting Geoff 'the sides are where the shape is'. Keep manipulating the sides into the shape they need to go in. This way there's a natural force to the material being wheeled in my humble opinion. It changed the way I work on the wheel.

Geoff welds with a nr 5 (if I remember right) that produces a big but very soft flame that lacks the force to blow out the puddle too quickly. And then you just 'scoot' along.

Grt

Frank
__________________
Frank de Kleuver
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.