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Old 10-19-2017, 12:11 PM
longyard longyard is offline
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Default Who Needs Welding?

There is a GREAT museum in Hamburg, Germany that features mostly post-war home-built, or factory prototype cars. The collection is amazing.

One of the cars on display was built by a successful pre-war car racer named Petermax Muller. It was an ultra-low cost project built using old VW "Beetle", and VW Kubelwagen chassis and suspensions parts, but with a body made from a German aluminum/copper alloy called BONDUR. The engine is a VW 1100cc.

Due either to a lack of funds, or lack of welding gas, the very curvaceous body was RIVETED together. The edge of one panel was "stepped" or "joggled", and the adjacent panel was then riveted onto the step. You might think that such a process would leave a discernible "flat spot" in the highly crowned panels, but it didn't. The panels flow as if they were welded and planished. Here are some photos of the car. The rivets are aluminum aircraft type.

Muller built several VW based race cars before Porsche got on the scene, and he did it without factory support (factory at the time was run by the British military) and by mostly trading black-market food stocks for engineering assistance from VW staff at Wolfsburg.

IMG_3639.jpg

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IMG_3641.jpg

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Old 10-19-2017, 01:04 PM
hot rivet hot rivet is offline
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Could you tell what type of rivets they where? Some seem to have a centre as if they were "pop" type with retained stem?
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Old 10-19-2017, 02:22 PM
longyard longyard is offline
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No Paul, definitely not "pop" rivets. They are aircraft type solid rivets. The center dimple in each one makes it easier to drill them out should repairs be necessary.
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Old 10-19-2017, 03:33 PM
steve.murphy steve.murphy is offline
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They would be AN426AD rivets most likely.
I rememeber a cheat from tech school to remember AD material; a dimple
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...alumrivets.php
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:52 AM
vroom vroom is offline
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Nice fotos Bill and some nice panel shaping. I have some fotos of rivets to, if I could find them. Rivets seem like a good bet for joining really large panels.
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Old 10-20-2017, 10:58 AM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
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The single dimple in the rivet is for identification, not an aide to drilling out.

There are a variety of such indicators depending on alloy (example 2024 uses a nipple, IIRC)
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Old 10-20-2017, 11:32 AM
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Thanks for sharing your journey with everyone Bill !!!
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Old 10-20-2017, 11:37 AM
CaptonZap CaptonZap is offline
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Rivet alloys, shear strengths, and driving condition[edit]
Alloy type Alphabetical letter Driven condition Marking on head
PLAIN
2117 AD 2117T3 DIMPLE
5056 B 5056H32 RAISED CROSS
2017 D 2017T31 RAISED DOT
2024 DD 2024T31 TWO RAISED DASHES
7050 E (or KE per NAS) 7050T73 RAISED RING
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:01 PM
vroom vroom is offline
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Here is a foto of some high zoot riveting. I think this was the Henry Ford 166.

IMG_1726.jpg
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Last edited by Steve Hamilton; 01-20-2018 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:43 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptonZap View Post
Rivet alloys, shear strengths, and driving condition[edit]
Alloy type Alphabetical letter Driven condition Marking on head
PLAIN
2117 AD 2117T3 DIMPLE
5056 B 5056H32 RAISED CROSS
2017 D 2017T31 RAISED DOT
2024 DD 2024T31 TWO RAISED DASHES
7050 E (or KE per NAS) 7050T73 RAISED RING
Excellent noodling on this, Zap. Thanks.

Also, 2117 (dimple) is in the American "Dural" family of 5% or greater copper in that aluminum alloy,
-which originated as the German "Duralumin" aluminum alloy, back in 1914, or so, because the developer Engr Wilm was from Durn, Germany, so giving its name.
-"Duralumin" was the first heat-treatable "hard/strong" aluminum (designed for the dirigibles, btw).
The German "Bondur" alloy (1920's) is aluminum and copper plus the addition of Magnesium. I think Engr Wilm was also in on the development of "hard/strong" Bondur, as well.

So the dimple appears on the German "hard" aluminum rivets, of those two alloys.

(- just sprinkling more lint on the trivia ... )
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Last edited by crystallographic; 10-20-2017 at 02:51 PM.
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