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Old 01-23-2019, 09:01 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Default English wheel quality

When wheeling on various machines, what sticks out when using a higher quality English wheel compared to a cheaper one?

I own a later edition harbor freight wheel which if I recall correctly was around $350 including multiple anvils. It is the only wheel I've used, and it gets the job done.

I have to wonder how this compares to a machine that's $1200, $2500, $9000 etc.

Rigidity is obviously important to minimize flex, but at the same time, my machine can really easily put too much pressure in and create track marks, and there's a fine line in pressure settings between enough and too much.

Any info is appreciated
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Old 01-23-2019, 10:27 PM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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I think the quality of the machine is more important when doing larger than patch panels, need consistent finish and trying to match an existing shape. How quickly can these tasks can completed also has some value. But before you can expect quality you must be capable of doing quality work. So sometimes starting with a cheap makes some sense. But at some point you make surpass the cheap wheel's ability to do high quality panels.

I'd avoid $1500 and any Chinese made wheels. You've got that now. If you decide to step up look for good used or American made. The concentricity of the anvils, axle diameters and such make them more adaptable.
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Last edited by Mike Motage; 01-23-2019 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:25 AM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB86 View Post
When wheeling on various machines, what sticks out when using a higher quality English wheel compared to a cheaper one?

I own a later edition harbor freight wheel which if I recall correctly was around $350 including multiple anvils. It is the only wheel I've used, and it gets the job done.

I have to wonder how this compares to a machine that's $1200, $2500, $9000 etc.

Rigidity is obviously important to minimize flex, but at the same time, my machine can really easily put too much pressure in and create track marks, and there's a fine line in pressure settings between enough and too much.

Any info is appreciated

Rob
There are a few things to look for when looking for a good wheel, either fabricated or cast
and they are..
1 little flexing on the frame as possible BUT! not too stiff.
2 look for vertical movement on the cradle and adjusters.
3 horizontal movement on the top wheel
4 material thickness of the frame and how it's made
5 material used to make the anvils and top wheel + type of bearing used
6 weight of the whole machine
You will find that a machine costing $ 500 to $ 2500 will have the above features but poorly and cheaply made, just to give you an example the 4 lower anvil used on the handbuilt wheeling machine cost more than the $350 wheel you mention.
The best way to go about is to do some research on fabricated or cast wheels, and if need be build your own wheel, using good quality steel for the lower anvils and top wheel, thick square tubing with a few internal braces all around the frame ( best to talk to a engineer about the braces and where to put them) You will need to jig the frame when you welded together as well . One thing to remember is that when a fabricated wheel is built ..it can be too soft..(meaning more work to get it right)... or sometimes too stiff. The way to fix a too stiff frame is to add a spring on the top wheel mechanism, that will allow the top wheel to move up and down just a little and take the rigid feel away. An Australian company back in the 50's did just that .. it was called ''Repco'' wheeling machine, google it and see how they did that. I have used one of those machines many times and it was very good.
Building a proper steel frame for an English wheel can be very expensive you be up for top wheel and lower anvils, + material jigging and labor cost etc . so do all your sums and then decide to buy a good wheel that will last you a life time
Peter
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Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 01-24-2019 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:02 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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If you want to try different wheels before you build or buy, you're welcome to come here and try one of Peter's cast wheels. I'm just off I-85 exit 75, about an hour south from the I-85 & I-77 interchange in Charlotte. There's others nearby who may also offer the same invitation.

Some things like eliminating runout of the upper wheel and lower anvils are necessary for consistent results. Beyond that, the operator's understanding of what & how and the amount of practice cannot be understated. Even with a great wheel, it still takes a lot of practice.... There are no short cuts.

I wanted a cast wheel for many years, but still looked and planned about building one during that entire time. Since everything I justify buying remains a bank account that must be viable to sell if needed, I never justified building a wheel that I thought would be less viable to sell quickly for a good price. That was a big part of my buy/build decision.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:45 AM
RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
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Good morning Rob. I live near you in Rock Hill, S.C., and would be willing to spend some time with you, if you are interested. I have a variety of wheeling machines here in my shop, both fabricated and three of Peters cast wheeling machines. Although, I am not a skilled wheeling machine operator I have learned a few things about what the differences are, and would be willing to share my thoughts. PM or email me for contact info.

Here is a link for some additional info:

http://www.mantiquesresto.com/Restor...siniWheel.html
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Old 01-24-2019, 06:39 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Thank you all for your helpful info. I never realized a wheeling machine could be too stiff.

AC and Will thank you for your generosity. I will certainly take you up on it when everyone's schedules and time allows.

I certainly will need to continue to develop my skills before I feel worthy of an upgrade.

A friend of mine recently took interest in buying an English wheel so I suggested the harbor freight model I have (which is also sold under other brand names for over twice as much), only to learn they've discontinued carrying the lower anvils. You can still buy them from other suppliers, for 3 times the price. I believe I paid 300 for the wheel and 50-60 for 5 lower anvils.

That same friend of mine and I just built some crazy bumpers for a project truck of his and we used some 5x8 3/8's thick tube along with his plasma cutter. I'd be very comfortable building a tube-based English wheel frame to be honest, but the engineering would make me a bit nervous, because it would have to really be right to be running $800 of wheels on it.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:20 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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Will's shop is a must-see. Much more metal working equipment than I have. including different fabricated wheels plus some of Peter's cast iron wheels. You can lay hands on each and all in one stop. It would be a very good investment of your time and gas money. And the best thing about Will's shop is Will.

Do some heavy searching here on the forum, too. There's a lot of info about building wheel frames- welded plate, welded rectangular tube, different perfomance characteristics of round vs square/rectangular steel tubing, reinforcing fabricated frames and lots of debate.
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:07 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffrod View Post
Will's shop is a must-see. Much more metal working equipment than I have. including different fabricated wheels plus some of Peter's cast iron wheels. You can lay hands on each and all in one stop. It would be a very good investment of your time and gas money. And the best thing about Will's shop is Will.

Do some heavy searching here on the forum, too. There's a lot of info about building wheel frames- welded plate, welded rectangular tube, different perfomance characteristics of round vs square/rectangular steel tubing, reinforcing fabricated frames and lots of debate.
Will do AC, Thankyou
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Old 01-26-2019, 08:03 AM
RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
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I would be happy to make it a joint visit of both Rob and Cliff. You guys figure out a mutual time and I will do all I can to facilitate the visit. Yesterday I sold the last (2) of Peters wheeling machines that were in stock here in the US, but I still have my (2) personal Tommasini wheeling machines and (2) fabricated machines for comparisons here in the shop.
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:55 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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I'm anxious to visit again, Will. Told my uncle the Speedster was finished and available if he wanted it.. He knew I was kidding but still talks about it.

Rob- pm sent.
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