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Old 09-23-2009, 03:24 PM
preston preston is offline
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Default Is a bead roller hem die equivalent to a tipping die ?

My primary need is to tip flanges. I actually built a tipping die using a washer and duct taped beading mandrel (on the lower) and basically it mostly just creates an impression line that I can then tip bend, so its helpful but not in the way I really imagined.

A hem roll set which is advertised (http://www.irvansmith.com/scart/bead...oll-p-391.html) to tip and then bend the metal for wire bead forming or edging seems like the first step of the operation is the same thing as a tipping die.

In other words, if I buy a $130 hem roll set, is that perfectly usable as a tipping die as well ?

Seems like a dumb question but I don't want to waste money.

Also, when people talk about wire edging, what exactly are they using for the wire ? I"m not clear on what material is being used. I mostly work in aluminum, but if you are doing this on a steel panel how in the heck do you keep that wire and the inside of the metal that has been wrapped around it from rusting ?
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:19 PM
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Tipping dies are primarily used to tip the edge of a sheet to form a flange. It can be used on a straight edge or a curved edge.

The hem dies are not the same as tipping dies but you can use one of the rolls as part of a set for tipping. The upper roll is usually the one that has a small rounded edge that will mark the metal to define where the flange will be located. Depending on what you are trying to accomplish and the type of metal that you are working with the lower roll will change. The lower roll can be either hard or soft, smooth or grooved. If you are trying to make a tight turn with a tipping wheel the smaller the diameter of the wheel the tighter the radius you can turn. Most of the time a tipping wheel set has a steel upper roll and a hard UHMW plastic roll for the lower.

On a straight edge to form the flange it is just a matter of bending the flange to whatever angle you want. You can do this by lifting the sheet as you roll it through the bead roller or by using a hammer and dolly to form the flange. The tipping wheel starts the bend and will give a defined place for the flange to bend.

On a curved edge the first pass will define where the bend for the flange is located. To get a flange to form on a curved edge you will have to shrink or stretch the metal in the flange depending on the shape of the curve. This can be done with a hammer and dolly, shrinker/stretcher or several other ways depending on what the flange is suppose to look like when complete.

The wire edge is one method of making the edge of a panel stronger than a just a simple flange. There are several types of wire edges that can be put on the edge of a panel. If you are going to make a true wire edge with a wire inserted and the panel wrapped around the wire it is best to use the same type of material. If you have an aluminum panel then use aluminum wire. This will reduce or eliminate the galvanic corrosion that will take place with dis similar metals in the presents of an electrolyte. For steel you can coat the wire and inside of the panel to help prevent rust.

There are also false wire edges that don't have a wire inserted but have the edge of the panel rolled over to strengthen the edge.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:44 AM
preston preston is offline
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Thanks for the information.

I'm still unclear on what is the wire ? Ie what specifically is it ? I realize a lot of different things could be used but when people say wire I think of a large copper electrical wire. I mostly work in aluminum so I"m doubly confuse about what to use ( a Welding stick ? or is that too soft ?)

I think what you're saying is that a hem roll set is different than a tipping die but kind of close (they sure look the same).

I guess if I wanted to be spoon fed my question would be - if I want to tip and edge panels, should I buy both sets or just buy the hem set and that would work?
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:39 PM
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The wire is typically similar metal. Certainly not aluminum with steel for obvious reasons. You'd want to use as stiff a wire as you can get to fit...but no stiffer.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:00 PM
preston preston is offline
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I'm still not clear on what specifically to use for the wire ?

For example I'm at the "store" and I need to buy some "wire" to edge an alum panel - what am I buying ? Is it as simple as using an .060 welding rod ?

I know it seems like dumb question, but I've watched several videos that involve edging a panel and they've never explained what they use for the "wire" or where they are sourcing it from.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:04 PM
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Preston, I can't tell you specifically because I've never actually done a wire edge on a real car...like a Model A. That said, on the samples I've done and the demos I've seen, the smallest wire was about 1/8th (.125). I believe sometimes the wire was even larger. Welding rod should work if it's long enough I'd think. You wouldn't want to have a break in the wire in the middle of the edge. But again, no first hand knowledge.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:04 PM
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Preston, you can find wire at any of the industrial suppliers on line. MSC, ENCO, McMaster Carr etc. They sell steel, steel music wire, aluminum, brass and other types of wire.

Here is one example. http://www.mcmaster.com/#aluminum/=3ruuoj

You have to know what you want for the application that you are working on. You can than select the type of wire you need and order some. Google is you friend.
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:59 PM
Bob Bob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preston View Post
For example I'm at the "store" and I need to buy some "wire" to edge an alum panel - what am I buying ? Is it as simple as using an .060 welding rod ?
Since your interested in doing a wire edge on an aluminum panel, if it were me, I'd go to the hardware store/lumber yard/radio shack and pick up a roll of antenna ground wire of the aluminum variety. I would probably opt for the 8 gage over the 10 gage. That's what I would do.

Bob
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