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  #11  
Old 04-29-2010, 09:42 AM
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Default Arrangement

I have limited experience but it seems that arrangement should at least be considered while shaping is occuring. Proper arrangement can sometimes be hard to achieve (even on a panel with the correct shape), especially if its a panel with a lot of shape. You more experienced guys correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #12  
Old 04-29-2010, 09:49 AM
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you are not wrong. I am working on these smaller multi reverse SOB panels for the 53 Buick splash shields, and let me tell you, the arrangment is a Bit**. I have used every trick in the book and writing new ones. Arrangment is a factor, more important on parts with lots of shape or reverse. Expierence with panels like this will learn ya real fast.

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  #13  
Old 04-29-2010, 09:53 AM
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I don't see how you keep from overlapping the tape-that's all I've ever seen. I think it would be useful, and add to the thread if someone posted some pics of the tape being laid down, and the details and important parts of that.

It's a good thread.

John
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  #14  
Old 04-29-2010, 10:11 AM
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Ahhh arrangement. That's almost a different subject. You FREQUENTLY can't work a panel in the proper arrangement. The problem comes when you can't 'see' how the panel can go into proper arrangement while you're shaping it.

I'll say this. When the panel fits the FSP, it WILL go into arrangement although sometimes you have to pop it to get it to reverse. It it doesn't fit the FSP it won't be the proper arrangement. Period full stop as our Brit friends say.
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  #15  
Old 04-29-2010, 12:03 PM
bob baisden bob baisden is offline
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if the flexible shape pattern doesn't fit "skin tight" to the panel, the panel won't go into the proper arrangement....
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  #16  
Old 04-29-2010, 03:47 PM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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I have found this interesting, I have never used an FSP, watching Johnny's video I can see how they work. I think the idea of using templates is a very important part of this process. I use just the templates but I can see that if I were making the opposite side panel to the one I had as a pattern it could be useful.

I always keep the panel in 'arrangement' while I am shaping.
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  #17  
Old 04-29-2010, 05:05 PM
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I used to make them in arrangement when shaping them until we were working on the T and made a reverse piece for the quarter and it was TOTALLY out of arrangement. With a little bump and nudge Kerry had it popped right into arrangement. A little finessing here and there and it was a super slick part.

I'd say now I'm probably 50/50. Though to be honest, I don't use FSP very often. Most of my stuff is one off and/or freehanded and I'm too lazy to build a buck to pull a pattern from. That's the beauty of bike stuff.
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  #18  
Old 04-29-2010, 05:17 PM
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They are reversible so the for the other side you just flip it inside out.

When I first started I tried to to keep the panel in it's proper arrangement as I was shaping it. I had everyone telling me don't worry about them dang contour gauges until you have the panel fitting the pattern. I fought that panel for so long that the piece was so over worked it turned into tin foil. I still keep that piece to remind me not to worry about the arrangement until I have it fitting the pattern.

My second attempt I put the contour gauges away and shaped that panel to the pattern. I made it fit like a glove, I looked at it and it did not look like the panel I was trying to reproduce. Popped that sucker into arraignment and it was perfect.

Steve Hamilton wrote me a reply about in and out of arrangement. I owe that reply any success I have ever had with metal shaping. I wish I had that as a thread here. It is lost now.

As for reverses I have only done a few but I seen Kerry do a nasty reverse and the piece looked nothing like what he was reproducing but when he popped it into arrangement it was perfect. It truthfully was pretty amazing.

I remember sitting out in the bitter cold at one of Kerry's 101 seminars discussing that panel.

Kerry can you explain how you did that reverse from reading your flexible shape pattern? I know what you did but you could explain it better then I could.

I use paper patterns and poster board patterns all the time but not for high crown panels. I just don't get how do it I guess.
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  #19  
Old 04-29-2010, 08:01 PM
ShawnMarsh ShawnMarsh is offline
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I think I need to see what you guys are doing, because as someone who has very little shaping experience, I'm not really sure what you mean by keeping a panel in arrangement. I'll be at the Santa Cruz meet in a few weeks, so hopefully I can see this in action because I'm a much better visual learner.
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  #20  
Old 04-29-2010, 08:21 PM
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See if this helps

Panel fitting the pattern and in arrangement

quill holder 082.jpg

Now I take that panel and bend the heck out of it

quill holder 084.jpg

It looks bad and not like anything I want.

But it still fits the pattern perfectly

quill holder 088.jpg

but now it is out of arrangement

So now I take out the contour gauges that I made and push, pull or bend the metal to it fits the contour gauge.

quill holder 085.jpg

Now that is done it is in arrangement.

quill holder 090.jpg
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Last edited by jhnarial; 04-29-2010 at 08:25 PM.
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