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Old 08-07-2009, 04:09 AM
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tdoty tdoty is offline
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Default Still working on making the weld seam disappear.

Been spending some time working on my sheetmetal welding. I'm a little out of practice and need to do some brushing up before I unleash the welder on my truck panels. I'm not quite there, but I think I'm getting the hang of it.

100_1341.JPG

A little swipe of filler and it should work just fine. It has some low spots in it and some hammer damage from being a little overzealous.

Next up was to try to try adding some filler as I was welding, instead of after. My .045 filler rod is in my other storage unit, so I just used some .030 MIG wire. I find it easier to tack in the middle and then go for the ends and finish it up by filling in the gaps. Since this is a flat panel, it seems to work better for me considering the distortion that IS going to happen. I find welding sheetmetal, especially flat pieces, to be more about how to fix the warpage than controlling it or trying to avoid it.

100_1342.JPG

Starting from the left is the raw weld bead. To the right of that is an area that has had the proud bead ground flush and a bit of hammer work was used to stretch out the shrinkage from the welding. To the right of that has been planished, final ground and hit with 80 grit on the DA.

My "education" with the TIG welder was "Here, it's set up, go for it!". Since I had a fair amount of experience with a torch, it hasn't been too hard to pick up. One thing I had to learn on my own was to start the arc a bit off the seam and move over to it - it really helps to avoid blowing holes at the start.

Anyone have some helpful tips and/or advice?

Tim D.
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Old 08-07-2009, 11:29 AM
chris@whiterhino chris@whiterhino is offline
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Tim,

Nice practice piece.


I will have to say that David's method of using the torch has been working out for me really well! Don't get me wrong, I LOVE TIG and I would TIG EVERYTHING together even wood if it would let me but I will have to give David his props because until I saw his video I never thought about using the torch.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:17 PM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Looking good Tim.

I can OA steel just as well as I can TIG...not that it's great but it won't break. But aluminum is beyond me...just can't see the puddle in spite of the high dollar goggles.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:51 PM
Overkill Overkill is offline
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Default Seeing the puddle

Kerry,

I found that my glasses were causing some of my problems. I have all the wiz bang coatings, auto darkening, no line bifocals, blah, blah - and I was getting a couple different weird affects -
- light bouncing between my glasses and welding lense. Especially if the light was coming in the back of the helmet. Got to a point that I was seeing two arc's and wondering if I was going nuts.
- focal length incorrect for the position I was holding my head in. Bifocals are made so that you can see close up when looking down at a book, not when looking out at a weld.
- Also the angle of the welding lense as compared to the angle of my glasses seemed to cause a problem.

Fortunately (?) I'm near sighted, so I was able to remove my glasses and see the weld. Of course, that took a whole lot of messed up welds before I figured it out.

Oh, and don't use mineral spirits to clean the overspray from a rattle can paint job off your fancy coated glasses......

John
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:16 PM
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I have to take my glasses off when I weld too. Sometimes I forget, and my nearsightedness makes it harder to see the puddle unless I look over the top of my glasses, a bit of a strain there.

Kerry, I can actually OA weld steel better than my TIG work......or used to, I'm way out of practice on my gas welding.

I can gas weld aluminum, but I totally suck at TIG welding thin aluminum! Different strokes, I guess. I learned to just pay attention to how the metal is acting when gas welding ally, instead of trying to see the puddle. A lot of what I have read about aluminum welding has told me the whiz bang coatings are for eliminating the orange flare to allow you to see the weld puddle better. Some say the flare is harmful, but most of what I've read doesn't say anything about that (mostly really old reading material, so the truth may be different these days). Once it goes glossy, just keep moving until the rod won't melt. I've learned to back off a bit every now and then to let the aluminum cool slightly - keeps the weld puddle from being a puddle on the floor.

Honestly, for gas welding aluminum, I think people try too hard to do it like TIG welding. Phil and I were playing with gas welding aluminum at Randy's once when Roger asked to try his hand at it. Some pretty nice weld beads were laid down - even though he claimed it was his first time! His technique ended up being more like brazing, putting the heat to both the rod and the sheet at the same time. It looked a bit odd at first, but the welds came out nice with good penetration and no extraneous holes. Again, different strokes!

Remember to keep the torch moving too. I remember Stan Lobitz talking about one of the racecar builders he used to work for (don't want to get the name wrong, so I'll just leave it out) and how the guy used to constantly keep the torch moving around when gas welding aluminum (and everything else). Stan said he just naturally adopted the technique, not knowing the guy who was teaching him had Parkinson's, which was what was causing the shake. Whatever the cause, the advice is solid! I kind of fan the flame around a bit and it serves not only to preheat the rest of the metal, but to keep the seam a bit cooler too.

So we've gotten a bit off track from the original post I hope anyone looking for welding advice will read everything and can hopefully find a nugget or two in everything they read

Tim D.
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Old 08-08-2009, 04:35 AM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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For making panels Gas welding realy is best! As I have said before I have a tig and a mig and I learned tig when I was 16 when I learned gas so I can do both. Tim, I dont agree with what you said about moving the torch around. when gas welding a unifrom forward movement is the way to do it. I keep saying work in a methodical way. The more like a machine you work the better the results when working metal and that includes welding it. If you watch my DVD or the youtube footage you can see that I work in a very repetative motion and the results speak for themselves. Gas welding is far easier than tig welding if you use the method I show but you have to do the process exactly as I show it or it will not work, tacking up in the way I show is important, dress the tacks then proceed to weld.
These methods are the way that has always been used for coachbuilding over here, they are the methods used for generations. When I learned to weld I learned pipe and plate welding but welding panels is a completly different thing.

David
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Old 08-08-2009, 03:25 PM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris@whiterhino View Post
Tim,

Nice practice piece.


I will have to say that David's method of using the torch has been working out for me really well! Don't get me wrong, I LOVE TIG and I would TIG EVERYTHING together even wood if it would let me but I will have to give David his props because until I saw his video I never thought about using the torch.
I am glad that you are finding the method I show usefull, the best thing for me about this method is that I dont need to use clamps which saves time and frustration, I have to make my living from this - here in England time is money.
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Last edited by David Gardiner; 08-08-2009 at 04:24 PM.
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