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  #1  
Old 03-14-2012, 12:23 PM
Heyleduc Heyleduc is offline
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Default TIG Welding Aluminum ???

Hey guys /gals ?? Yesterday I made a practice gas tank (3 pieces) , I was having a real time trying to TIG the parts together , it was taking way to much heat and the rod walls totally balling up , a friend over the phone told me to look for a torch / air leak like maybe I was getting air in my tank air and contaminating the weld , I had all the settings correct, I had a green electrode etc............ anyway after trying to locate these problems I did a quick test on a piece if harder aluminum I used for practicing and well'a perfect stacked dimes looking welds .... Is it possible the 3003 h-14 doesn't TIG (.063 ) maybe thats why people like to gas weld it with the special flux etc. Any HELP is appreciated !!!!

Paul
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:41 PM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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Paul, I cant help you with the tig welding, In my opinion gas should be used for ally work, in my experience tig welds tend to crack when they are being dressed out. Just my opiinion but I know that Kerry did some 'blind' test pieces with gas and tig and found much the same thing, there is a thread on here about it somewhere. Not saying it cant be done just I think gas is better for lots of reasons .Probably not much help sorry.

David
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:34 PM
metal manny metal manny is offline
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Gas welding, IMO, is the way to go as the weld bead is softer and as David mentioned, won't crack when dressed out.

Kent White from TM Technologies does an effective & impressive demo on Youtube of heavy forming & planishing a gas welded part with no cracking. You can also use less filler, requiring less filing of the bead and when proficient should weld more inches per minute than with TIG.

I'm not aware of difficulties with TIG and 3003, but check that your filler rod is the recommended grade. I like to tack the parts with the TIG and gas weld the seam.

BTW, check that the torch and ground aren't swapped in the machine's sockets - it will make welding virtually impossible and put too much heat into the tungsten - causing it to ball & erode excessively.

Manny
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Old 03-14-2012, 05:11 PM
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Marty Comstock Marty Comstock is offline
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First off, you are tig welding, not gas, so lets start there. Your parent material isnt the issue, I have successfully welded a good amount of .063 3003 h-14 and shaped the seams after dressing out.

Lets look for possible contamination, welder settings, tungsten size, dirty gas lens or collet body, pinched hose, too much gas flow can cause issues, and improper filler rod.

Try a sliver of parent material for a filler. Be certain it is in fact 3003 you are welding. Double triple quadruple check your welder settings per your manual that came with the machine. use their recommended settings for what you are doing. Look to see if they have a chart for aluminum filler rods too, that will get you going in the right direction. Once you have exhausted the info in the manual, and ascertained that you followed it to a T, then we can start narrowing things down.

Are you able to get a stable arc on the 3003? what material is your "harder" practice piece? answering these will help us be able to help you. Usually, its something simple, something overlooked.

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Old 03-14-2012, 06:33 PM
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rlile rlile is offline
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Might try two things..
ONe start your arc off the 'crack'
and two make your initial arc a lot hotter than what you would run the bead with (back off the heat when you get going)
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:18 AM
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King's Ransom King's Ransom is offline
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If you are referring to the "filler" rod balling up... That's created by improper tig torch angle. In that case rock the torch to more 90 degree angle in relation to the work surface.

If you are referring the "tungsten" rod balling up... That could be caused from several different issues including undersized tungsten, amperage too high, machine Balance setting too far into dig or too far into clean.

If you need higher amperage to get the weld bead going, try preheating your work piece a little hotter. I do this when I need to do decorative welds that require smaller beads of filler (for example is you have a very fine point or edge that you are trying to create by adding filler and shaping.) If not, you will need too much amperage and you will boil the base metal away. Detail Aluminum tig is what I specialize in that requires being able to weld in any position.. All of my work is 3003. see pic.

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Last edited by King's Ransom; 03-15-2012 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:58 AM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Comstock View Post
First off, you are tig welding, not gas, so lets start there. Marty
The OP asked about gas welding...

David

Just to add if you use gas welding all you have to do is wipe the edge with some scotch bright, flux and weld then wash the flux off with water. You will not get flux inclusion if you can weld properly. Gas welding was used by Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, Bentley, and every other manufacturer of coachbuilt cars.

David
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Last edited by David Gardiner; 03-16-2012 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:59 PM
Nate Lagler Nate Lagler is offline
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I'm guessing that the second "scrap" piece was smaller than the pieces for your tank? If so, the smaller piece will come up to temperature much faster than the larger ones. It wouldn't surprise me if you went back and did everything exactly the same, just preheating the parts before welding, and had success. As you heat the panel with a torch, you will notice that it flashes with condensation and then it evaporates off. That is a good temperature indicator, or you can simply lick your finger and give it a quick touch listening for the sizzle. Just don't touch the area you are welding and leave burned on saliva to go into your weld.

Aluminum is more conductive than steel, and the rest of the cold metal (especially in the winter time) will be acting as a heat sink while you are trying to weld and cause you to need more heat from the tig torch. This will cause your tungsten to ball up quicker, and if you are a little off 90 degrees on your torch angle the heat will be reflected, probably towards your filler rod causing it to melt before you even get it to the metal. (Filler rod is small and heats up quickly)

People often challenge this saying it's not necessary. You will notice that by the time you are done welding, the entire piece is probably hotter than your preheat temp. You proabably will also notice that about half way through your weld seem, it suddenly starts to weld much nicer and everything is just flowing together. These two things are related.

I sometimes preheat for tacking as well. You get easier nicer tacks, but the metal is hot when you are handling it. After you get it all tacked, preheat again and then weld. No need to jump around, all the metal is going to be welded. If it is going to shrink, jumping around won't help. You will just loose your preheat by doing that. You are a metal shaper, a little planishing will take care of the shrinkage with no problem.

With following all the proper steps to clean the metal (those should be used reguardless of what metal) and the preheat, I always weld my aluminum sheet metal from one side getting full penetration and fusion on the back side. Then simply grind off the excess metal on the back that you pushed through from the other side (and any profile of the front if necessary) and hammer smooth. If you don't get full penetration and fusion on the back, then it isn't welded yet. Welding both sides is a good way to get crack. Oh yea, practice, practice, practice!!
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:27 PM
SWT Racing SWT Racing is offline
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I agree with Ransom that your torch angle may be laid back too far if you are balling up the filler rod.

Sometimes when the tungsten ball up excessively, the arc cone gets pretty wide and makes this a little more problematic. Because the arc cone is not as focused, you throw more pedal to it to melt the joint, and then you start melting the filler rod.

I would do as he suggested and try an angle closer to 90° to the joint. I've also found that using Zirconated (brown color code) tungstens helps with preventing the tungsten from balling up as much. It is usually used on MIL-STD-1595 aluminum radiographic quality welds, and prevents tungsten deposits in the weld. This may also help with cracking when planishing the weld after dressing it out, although this is only a theory.

All I ever use anymore are Lanthanated and Zirconated tungstens.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:38 PM
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G. Anderson G. Anderson is offline
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Default TIG welding aluminum

www.weldingtipsandtricks.com

Go to the "TIG Welding Aluminum"

Full of helpful tips and instruction.

.063 3003 H14 can be TIG welded with NO PROBLEM.

Don't over think what you are doing.

You should NOT need ANY preheat with .063 material!!!!!!

Do not start at the edge, start about 1" in, vary where you weld, distortion

Set YOUR TIG machine correctly, 100% Argon set at about 15 -20 cfm,

1/16 or 3/32, (I prefer 3/32, puts more heat, then back off heat with foot

pedal), Green tungsten.

For some reason 5356 filler rod works best on my machine.

1/16 or 3/32 diameter.

You should be getting a good weld with less than 100 amps.

Use a CLEAN Stainless steel scratch brush, clean your about to be welded

surfaces with CLEAN Acetone and a CLEAN paper towel.

Practice, practice, practice.....

Did I mention TIG welding stuff should be CLEAN,

like you can EAT off it!!!!!

I weld Aluminum almost every day, various fabrication for drag cars.

(yes, I used to TEACH welding, we STARTED the new students on

ALUMINUM!!!)

Your Pal, Gary
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Last edited by G. Anderson; 03-15-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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