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Old 11-17-2018, 09:06 AM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Default Smoothing lumps on English Wheel help

Hey guys. I'm making my first fender. Very similar to a late 30's Cadillac/LaSalle fender.

I've made a wooden buck, spent all day walnutting up the panel with a harbor freight plastic mallet and sand bag. This is 18 gauge steel I'm using.

Back and forth on the buck, I've marked areas that were touching so I know where to stretch more to allow the panel to come downward and touch the other areas.

I got it about 95 percent there so last night I smoothed it out on the English wheel. I used a 3 inch radius for the majority, and then from the wheel opening to the "back bone" if you like, I used a 12 inch radius.

My problem is one area in particular is domed outward more than the others where I hammered a little bit too much I suppose. I've tried wheeling in all directions all around it, with considerable pressure on the wheel and I can't seem to smooth that section away.
IMG_20181117_004839987.jpg

Should I raise the areas around it with the malet or do I need to pull up or down in a section while it's coming through the wheel? Thanks
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:51 AM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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Rob, I would work the areas on both sides of your lump. You've got a good start but a ways to go to finish that piece. You need to get that to drop down further on the buck. I would make that almost entirely by stretching. Just keep blending/ stretching from perim of your lump to nearly the edge. Avoid the lump for now, you may need to raise the lump later.
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Last edited by Mike Motage; 11-17-2018 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:17 AM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Thanks Mike. I'll give it a go and post back.
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:07 AM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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You might also try stump of tuck shrinking the outer edges. It appears you have too much metal for it to lay down.


You can make a panel 3 ways.



1- Pure stretch...gets thinner in the center
2- Pure shrink...gets thicker on the edges
3- Stretch and Shrink...a little thinner in the center and thicker on the sides but not as much as the single method.
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:39 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Make a paper roll. Maybe you started shaping from a flat sheet. If you are shaping according a pre-made paper template, it will make you shape better. This part is possibility to be made in one piece. Do not be afraid to try shaping on wheels. Sheet shapes itself. Short pieces always have bad endings. Combine techniques. Small pressure on wheels and use more shaping. Jaws for stretching and shortening of sheet metal. Good luck.
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:12 PM
Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
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I would suggest several things. I would agree with Kerry that the ends look a bit lettuce like. I would shrink them down. The lump may not be as bad as you thing but rather you are seeing a severe transition problem. I would open up the panel as far as you can to make it as flat as possible. With it opened up, you can see the transition more clearly. Use your paper pattern to see where the shape is in the opened position. It may be too early in the shaping process to render it up to the buck. A buck can sometimes be misleading as it is combines shape and form. If you need to shrink the lump slightly, you can support the perimeter of the lump on a sand bag in the opened position and cold shrink it with a smooth slapper. This is not a solution if the lump is severe. The other thing that I would strongly suggest is to wheel the panel as opened as possible. This allows a low crown anvil which will be more exacting and allow blending. Always try to use the lowest crown possible. You may actually be able to shrink some of the lump with a low crown anvil. I am an advocate of flats but I would imagine a very low crown full radius anvil would achieve the same result.
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Old 11-17-2018, 03:18 PM
RB86 RB86 is offline
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Thanks for the input guys. I've been stretching out the center to get a more proper fit. The plastic mallet I was using was a bit of slow going so I just bought a baseball bat and cut it up. We'll see how it works.

IMG_20181117_150945318_HDR.jpg
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Last edited by Steve Hamilton; 11-18-2018 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 11-17-2018, 03:38 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Default Throw the mallet to dog.

There is no punch anywhere. Only EW and jaws. The first 3 pictures are bad steps. The result is the last picture. After I made a paper roll. Paper is very important. You underestimate it.
When shaping, the sheet must be soft. If you smash it, the metal will harden and you will not do anything with it at the end of the road. It can still be soft. Throw the mallet to dog.

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Last edited by Steve Hamilton; 11-18-2018 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:03 PM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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No one has seemed to ask you...……….. do you understand the shape & form idea and how it relates to working a panel ??? I had to have someone explain it to me (thank you Mr. Scott Knight) so don't feel bad if you're not 100% sure how it works, speak up . ~ John Buchtenkirch
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:11 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Buchtenkirch View Post
No one has seemed to ask you...……….. do you understand the shape & form idea and how it relates to working a panel ??? I had to have someone explain it to me (thank you Mr. Scott Knight) so don't feel bad if you're not 100% sure how it works, speak up . ~ John Buchtenkirch
Well, I'll admit to wanting to better understand these things- especially from Scott Knight via you, John. That sounds like a very worthy offer.

So I'll speak up and ask. If you're willing to share in this thread or otherwise, I (and probably others) am all ears.
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