#1
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Lead work
Hey guys, been getting some pin holes in my lead work. The deeper the leader the more I get,
Could anyone relate or maybe there are some known reasons, i clean and clean and clean the metal honestly, im 100% sure its not that. It would be good to know where some of you all get your lead from too??? Thanks everyone,.
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Robbie |
#2
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Robbie.....
What type of lead are you using?? You could get holes from not spreading the lead properly and evenly. Also you must keep the heat even right through, do not have too cold or too hot spots. I get my lead and flux from a Melbourne supplier, if you need some just let me know Peter
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P.Tommasini Metalshaping tools and dvds www.handbuilt.net.au Metalshaping clip on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh91hodPg Making Monaro Quarter panel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM |
#3
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Without photos it's hard to advise.
David
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Metalshaping DVD. www.metalshapingzone.com Metalshaping with hand tools on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGElSHzm0q8 All things are possible. |
#4
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Quote:
Back in the 1980's, many metal guys were getting pinholes in their leadwork, and after some scrutiny it was learned that they were not doing a hot wipe after their tin prep. Are you doing the hot wipe, or just going on to lay on the lead? Second question: because you say the thicker = the more pinholes, are you overworking the lead to get it nice? If you overwork, and heat and paddle and heat and paddle too long, the body solder separates into lead and tin, and it gets grainy and also gets pinholes.
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Kent http://www.tinmantech.com "All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919. |
#5
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I use a flux and hot wipe it. I along with another tradesman with 60 years experience are getting the pin holes. Its very strange. We are using 70/30 from a supplier in Sydney. I think maybe the lead but i am not sure I appreciate all the info guys.
Pete if i could grab the info off you that would be great...
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Robbie |
#6
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When you say 'deeper', can you explain? Are you trying to build up an area and making multiple passes, is the previous pass cool? Can you move the pinholes around? What type of flux, liquid?
A picture would be nice. I'll get trash in my lead and move it around out of the way or I'll try to push the stick under it and raise it. If the trash is from a rusty old panel then you won't be able to move it, it won't be a pinhole, but you'll have to pull the lead back off and clean the metal better. Is your lead nice and clean/fresh? I'll use old lead, whatever I can lay my hands on at times and there can be problems with it, the trash will usually stay on top but you never know.
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oj higgins |
#7
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Too bad we don’t have a way to ask Bill Hines on this one. He’s got so many years doing lead work I’ll bet he has a theory or two on this. Maybe some California member may be friendly with him and could approach him on the subject ?
Better than 5 years ago Renato sent me a photo of Bill at Red’s hammer shop, of course being the un-organized dumb ass I tend to be at times I forgot to put it in “my pictures”, sorry guys. I can’t remember if they were in the photo or Renato told me that Red had shaped some sail panels (C pillars) for a chop job for Bill. Memory gets worse every day, damn it . ~ John Buchtenkirch
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John |
#8
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What are you using for a lubricant? Seems like the only time I get pinholes is when the paddle wax I use is a little dirty. bill Hines uses auto trans fluid on his paddles Ive tried it but is too messy for me.
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#9
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Lead Work
About 15 years ago a group of us autobody guys went in on buying lead from a supplier who sold to ammunition loaders. We got 70/30 and it was the best lead I ever got and still have some. If you get lead that isn't good in any way it can be anything from a pain to a disaster. The lead was supposed to be swaged into 38 caliber jacketed bullet cores and that is a real easy diameter to work with. The paddle wax we get from Eastwood seems fine. We can't get the same lead again and I have had a aluminum mold milled and will try doing some autobody lead 10 pounds at a time thinking 7lbs pure lead and 3lbs pure tin. I had cast bullets in my younger days so I have experience casting. I clean my bare steel panels with a HEAVY Duty rotary wire brush about 2" diameter and .o60 bristles in a air drill and flux with tins tite then wipe with 50/50 solder. Then paddle the lead out. I like leading where panels have a typically harder life like near lock strikers or on wheel opening body lines or a spliced sail panel. Good luck because as soon as the word lead comes up people shy away and it can be difficult to purchase.
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Steve Overstreet, Precision Collision Services Inc. |
#10
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Hi Robbie.
This has come at perfect timing as I just done a fair bit of wiping on a E Type. One of the biggest factors is: Cleanliness and you need the right lead. 30/70 that is Sn30 Pb70 The 1st % is the tin content and the 2nd is the lead. and not the other way round. I just served my apprenticeship on lead wiping by using the wrong lead. 50/50, then 40/60, you can get away with the latter. but it doesn't work correctly. The other thing that doesn't work is to melt sinkers or strip lead out of battery's, they contain that many impurities, that when the smut does float after melting into bars, it still contaminates your job. After purchasing the correct lead it is like icing a cake. The lead will be easy to melt to depth without falling off the panel and you can paddle it for quite sometime with minimal heat, and if you need to add lead it easy to do that as well. A couple of Do's: Do Make sure the surface steel to be tinned is super clean, and not surface rusty. Do Use a brush and tin with Bakers Flux. Do Use the correct lead Do clean the panel with Bi-carb after tinning. Do sweep the floor clean of mess, prior to leading, that way you can collect the shaved lead and remelt into sticks. Do wear a respirator if fact all safety gear if your going to sand. Do use engine oil on your paddles. (oil floats to the surface allowing easy clean) others use tallow or what ever is in the Chinese container(lard or pig fat). Every to their own. and some Don'ts: Don't put that much flux on till it runs of the panel. You only need enough to tin, if you need more and the tinning is still not sticking, your not clean enough. Don't be heavy handed when fluxing seams, flux ingress will come back and bite you after paint work (this can also be cause of pin holes)as it boils out of the lead. Don't quench or air cool the panel, it will cause distortion. Don't file the panel till after it cools naturally, cause just like the previous, you will file distortion. Don't leave the metal untreated after leading, the steel around will rust like no tomorrow, even after neutralizing. Now I'm no pro when it comes to leading, I was shown how to do it 30 years ago, by a old fella who did it all the time. I have only needed to do it now, on these few projects, after trial and error these are the things that helped me through. To try and work lead that is totally wrong was a complete challenge in its self, Now I use the proper stuff, It's child's play. Here is a piece I just completed on the Jag Dogleg. lead wipe 1.jpg lead wipe 2.jpg lead type.jpg And the correct lead. There may be others a lot more experienced than myself on here, but this is what I have found for me to be successful in my garage. Hope this is of help to some. Regards John
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John EK Holden V8 |
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