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  #51  
Old 04-28-2018, 08:37 AM
Kerry Pinkerton's Avatar
Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Good stuff Dane. I learned on my roadster project and have said many times that the inner structures are harder than the actual skins.
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  #52  
Old 04-28-2018, 09:38 PM
Oldnek Oldnek is offline
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Going pretty well on this project Dane, Its pretty cool how you can change the whole outlook of the design with a slight change of profile and how many of the modern products can help with the transition to make it look more factory.
She will turn out to be one nice looking car when done.
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  #53  
Old 04-30-2018, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kerry Pinkerton View Post
Good stuff Dane. I learned on my roadster project and have said many times that the inner structures are harder than the actual skins.
Yes it is certainly tricky in its own way. I like to try and plan far enough ahead so there is a rhyme and reason for the structure rather than just pieced together somewhat. However, when there is basically nothing left, it’s kind of a “can’t get there from here deal” a lot of times and I find I can’t alway plan for all unforeseen things.

I’d like to be able to tie the rear of the roof rail to something, but there is nothing strong enough to tie it into yet. So for now, I’ve got it located and held temporarily into position off of the square inner bracing I added. Once more structure is designed and figured out ,things can start tying together a bit more permanently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldnek View Post
Going pretty well on this project Dane, Its pretty cool how you can change the whole outlook of the design with a slight change of profile and how many of the modern products can help with the transition to make it look more factory.
She will turn out to be one nice looking car when done.
Thank you! My goal is to just “refine” the style of the car and as you say modernize it a bit. Subtle changes and refinements that many people walk by and don’t notice is best. Not that the roof change is subtle....but when done it should look like the factory could have designed it that way. (Hopefully!)

As far as progress, nothing too visible done on the project today. I started doing some work on the top of the quarter panel so I can start designing and fabricating the bottom quarter glass innner structure and glass channel. This will help aid in tying the roof rail in.
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  #54  
Old 05-01-2018, 05:50 PM
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Nothing too serious happening currently. I needed to order some more styles of window channel (for the vent glass frame and vertical divider), inner and outer glass sweeps, etc. I need to modify the top of the quarter panel belt line to match the curved glass but first had to decide what glass sweep I'd be using so I knew how much clearance I needed to build into the quarter / glass opening.

In the meantime I took out the joint / seam on the quarter panel belt line area. I wanted to eliminate the joint and have a smooth transition like the door, plus this area was rusty anyways so "2 birds, 1 stone" type of deal really.

The patch only deals with the joint, not the modification for the glass sweep. It's also left unfinished at the rear edge of the window where the roof skin will eventually tie into it (but that's a long ways down the road yet) More so I just wanted to get the rough patch in before any internal structure was built and I lost easy access to the backside for welding and planishing, etc.

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Here you can see how the belt line bolted onto the top of the quarter panel leaving the joint. Also note the rust holes along the length of it.

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With the patch made, the original joint was cut away.

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The new patch bent up and clamped into place ready to be tacked.

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Patch tacked in (with MIG, no reason...just because it was right next to me at the time)

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This close up shows how the radius from the quarter panel into the belt line now matches the door.

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Finished welding with the TIG. Again, the patch, belt line and quarter are not fit to the roof rail ye,t that will come later.

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Welds planished, sanded and metalworked good enough to start fabricating the structure / channel for the bottom of the quarter glass.

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This view looking along the length of the car shows a nice flow of the quarter and door.

Edit: The last little bit of the patch are not welded in because in time the rest of the quarter panel back to the trunk jamb will need to be changed in order to meet up with the new placement of the rear back glass. Right now I left this patch long so I can fine tune the placement of the glass, and will then fit the rest of the quarter panel to the window opening / frame,
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Last edited by pplace; 05-01-2018 at 05:58 PM.
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  #55  
Old 05-01-2018, 08:46 PM
Mr fixit Mr fixit is offline
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Default Surface rust

pplace,

Beginner Question, not trying to hijack the project just seems to be a question as I watch this GREAT build. Do you worry about surface rust when working with the bare metal and the project taking a while to be finished? If you do , are you priming as you go along or at stages of the build?
I have a repair that has sections of bare metal and I have a concern about surface rust and am not sure what the best approach would be.

Appreciate any suggestions.

TX
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  #56  
Old 05-01-2018, 09:41 PM
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pplace,

Beginner Question, not trying to hijack the project just seems to be a question as I watch this GREAT build. Do you worry about surface rust when working with the bare metal and the project taking a while to be finished? If you do , are you priming as you go along or at stages of the build?
I have a repair that has sections of bare metal and I have a concern about surface rust and am not sure what the best approach would be.

Appreciate any suggestions.

TX
No problem at all and great question.

Personally I don’t worry at this stage about surface rust (either from humidity or moister & oils from people touching it)

As a visual preference I like to keep it clean looking (and wish I had the quarter panels cleaned to bare metal, but got out of sequence when I didn’t have enough crushed glass to do it earlier)

However, while in progress I do use weld thru primers on my joints while welding. In areas that will be inaccessible later but not be affected by welding I’ll epoxy the surfaces when needed.

At the end of the metal working stage or before I would do any bodywork or priming I will either reblast, sand, wire or fiber wheel, etc. to get the surface perfectly clean again before topcoating with anything.

I personally haven’t used a bare metal protectant during a build as I’ve never had much of an issue with a lot of surface rust (a bit here and there but as I said clean it here and there and it stays decent. We run A/C in the shop quite often which helps cut out the humidity in the air as well.

Edit: I like to keep the entire project in bare metal as long as I can so I can complete as much or all of the fabrication. If I were to spot prime or do bodywork and then later need to change, modify, weld a bracket or a tab, etc. I then have to deal with heat affected topcoat or such.
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Last edited by pplace; 05-01-2018 at 09:47 PM.
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  #57  
Old 05-02-2018, 02:43 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Dan, you are doing a beautiful job and you are not problem about the car being cut ..... but it occurred to me. Everybody is building cars from the inside. You're building cars from outside.

Perhaps it would be less work to, doing make the few sheets to the surface.

From the original car you got 4 sheets ..... I see it well?

It was, of course, a joke. Beautiful work.
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  #58  
Old 05-03-2018, 07:54 PM
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I've now begun adding the finished edge to the quarter glass opening as well as the inner structure. I should explain that we decided not to have the quarter glass roll down but instead we will have it manually slide forward out of it's channel when it's wanted to be removed.

There are multiple reasons for not having it roll down:

1. The main reason even if a very complex regulator and track system was developed it appears from calculations and mock ups that the glass will not fully "hide" The addition of the larger and taller wheel tub (because the car sits so low) takes up a lot of room and it appeared very difficult if not impossible to get the window to roll down 100%. We thought of many different variables and methods to twist, drop, rotate, pivot, etc. the glass. Who knows, in the end when the wheel well and structure are in there it may become apparent we had enough room (doubtful) but rather than building into a corner that couldn't be changed later we went with a manually removable window.

2. The added strength of being able to fully tie the new roof rail together with the quarter panel and door jamb will be really nice, especially since the car is now a hard top.

3. There will be no rear seat, so the windows won't be rolled down much and probably only removed when showing the vehicle (and we have a plan for what to do with the glass when removed)

As before, it's difficult to capture exactly what's goin on with these pictures compared to seeing it with your own eyes. Add to it that I know the plan / vision in my head and can fill in the missing pieces for now.....I'm sure for others it's probably hard to see a clear picture of what's going on. That's why I get a bit "long winded" in my descriptions, to hopefully explain things so they kind of make sense?!

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Similar to the roof rail, I'm making a series of overlapping pieces to make a strong "box" structure that will blend into the roof rail and the original door post.

The first piece fabricated was a "Z" shape. This was curved to fit the glass and will be one side and part of the bottom of the box. The top edge was trimmed and but welded to the beltline on the quarter panel to create the new edge for the quarter opening.

(The piece was tack welded in during the picture but was later fully welded to the quarter as well as the door post and roof rail)

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This view from the outside helps show the new quarter glass edge and how it now matches the curve of the wooden buck. I also moved the edge out a bit in order to be the correct distance / gap to work with the rubber window sweep I'll be using.

(The door glass edge has not been modified or moved yet)

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Here I've jumped ahead after the first piece was fully welded into position. I've now fabricated a second flange and installed it. This flange serves as the base for the glass weather strip channel to set on as well as add more strength and rigidity to the box structure.

Note I've also notched through the door post and capped off the edges. The weather strip channel will fit through this opening.

Note: I'll later trim the inner part of the door post off a bit (roughly where the marker line is)

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Here I've set in place the glass weather strip channel and a small sample section of the rubber door sweep I'll be using.

In time I'll design something to clean up the opening so the "ends" of the weather strip and sweep look finished. Ideas are:

1. Cap it off with sheet metal (welded around the opening) so just the glass can slide through. This is not ideal as it's risking bumping the glass on a metal edge as you install or remove it each time.

2. Cap it off with a piece of stainless trim (much like idea #1 but removable) however this has the same downside of bumping the glass edge.

3. Cap it off with a rubber "flap" with a slit that cleans it up and the glass can still slide through it no problem.

Note: Since the glass doesn't roll down the actual rubber sweep is not even needed. However in order to have the same look as the door glass I've decided it will look best to have the sweep along the whole length of the bottom of the glass from front to back.

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A view from inside. You can see the two edges of the current structure (top and bottom of the box) I'll cap these off on the last side to finish off the complete box.

In time a removable "garnish" type moulding will be fabricated. This will have the last side of the "U" incorporated to hold the glass weather strip into position

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Here's a close up of the weather strip on the roof rail as well as the glass bottom meeting in the rear corner.

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A close up of the same area but with the wood mock up window installed as well as the short section of window sweep to show how it nicely closes off the opening as well as hiding the glass weather strip channel.

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I've had a couple people ask about how the roof rail weather strip will stay in position. This is not the correct piece, but a scrap that shows how a 90 deg. flange will be spot welded to the roof rail flange and that will create the last edge of the "U" needed for the weather strip to set into.

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Same area, but with the weather strip set into the "U" for an example. Hopefully that sort of explains it. To confuse things even more, there will actually be another flange added there as well but that will actually be the new roof edge eventually.
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  #59  
Old 05-04-2018, 12:46 PM
Sprint Relic Sprint Relic is offline
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Thanks Dane for documenting these modifications, most of us may never deal with having to fab a window channel, or roof line support, but seeing how Detroit did it, or how you are redoing it answers so many questions I have yet to even think about.
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  #60  
Old 05-04-2018, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sprint Relic View Post
Thanks Dane for documenting these modifications, most of us may never deal with having to fab a window channel, or roof line support, but seeing how Detroit did it, or how you are redoing it answers so many questions I have yet to even think about.
Well thank you! I'm glad to hear again that people are finding these posts both interesting and informational. I'm trying to document as much as I can and post / tell about what's going on for just that reason.


Today I was only able to work this morning on the project as I had a commitment that took me out of the shop for the afternoon. It wasn't much progress but I did want to at least finish and button up the remaining sections (bottom and one side) needed to finish the "box" structure on the quarter glass area.

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Here I've got the bottom portion of the box formed, trimmed and clamped into position.

As I mentioned earlier the box is a series of overlapping corner pieces basically. This not only doubles up the strength, but gives a perfect area to punch and plug weld it all together.

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This is a view of the bottom of the box looking straight up and a bit towards the front of the vehicle. Just showing how the bottom joints overlap and are punched and ready for the plug welding.

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The last side piece is fit into position, clamped and ready for welding as well.

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With everything welded, ground and cleaned up. You'll notice how the box curves slightly to transition from the narrower door post and blends in flush with the roof rail at the rear.

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Slightly different view of the finished box structure / quarter window channel area.

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While doing the passenger side I bent, curved and formed all the pieces for the driver's side at the same time minus some final trimming and notching....though I did mark it so they will be an exact mirrored match to the other side.

In general they are pretty basic pieces individually, they are bent on the brake at different angles (they aren't 90 deg bends) as the windows lean in at the top, so the box isn't square to the world either.

After bending on the brake they are all stretched or shrunk to the curvature of the glass.

The trickiest part was notching and fitting them to fit properly.
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