Hi from the open road
 

This is my first post on this forum. I'm only posting because one of your members seems to be a bus nut.

I'd love to find out what kind of a shop could reproduce the following type of stainless:
https://img.skitch.com/20110216-r2hj...rm8u41js36.jpg
https://img.skitch.com/20110216-n1e8...3q77aru5wp.jpg
https://img.skitch.com/20110216-1mkw...2qbcb4n9wy.jpg
https://img.skitch.com/20110216-8pkp...xbaq4i9img.jpg

Here's what it looks like overall:
https://img.skitch.com/20110216-j2pt...btkneey25q.jpg

Most people seem to be used to making very flat piece of stainless with a very small fluting as shown below:
https://img.skitch.com/20110216-dug9...bxj8kx85x5.jpg

I'm not looking for anything like that. I instead want to know who can reproduce a scalloped stainless siding that is made of "C"'s connected to "C"'s instead of flat with a bump. The results I'm looking for would not have any flat areas in the surface... all curves and ridges.

Here are some dimensions:
Overall height: 13", Vertical space between ribs: 2 9/16", Height of ribs versus valleys: 3/8", Total depth from bus to top of ribs: 5/16"
I'm not certain what the overall length would need to be. The bus is 34' long and this does not extend the full length of the vehicle. I'm assuming it might end up being about 30' long and will be broken in two spots near the rear to accommodate the engine/baggage door and on one side near the front for the front door.

I'd also like it to be made from a satin-finish stainless... here's an example that shows that quality:
https://img.skitch.com/20110216-r3pd...8nxbxqti5x.jpg

Please let me know if you have any idea what kind of shop can re-create this type of stainless.

-Ben

Hi from the open road
 

Hi,

I just found your site the other day and was very happy to find a group into metal shaping.

I'm restoring a 1963 Flxible Starliner bus (creativecruiser.com for details and pics) and am researching details about some stainless steel accent panels that I'd like to have reproduced.

I don't do the hands-on work since I'm better behind the camera or keyboard than with hammer or tool in hand, but I really appreciate what can be done by a skilled craftsmen.

I live in a bus and travel all the time (whereisben.com for my travel-log). I'm a photographer (thebestofben.com for examples), spend my time giving seminars on Photoshop and exploring the country.

Ben welcome to AllmetalShaping. Thanks for the introduction. There are several members here that are working on buses. Thanks for joining us.

Welcome Ben!
That part could be made on a pullmax machine.
depends on your location. I'm in central Ca.

Ben, what is the length and height of the panels on your '63?
This could also be done in a bead roller with a urethane lower doing one or 2 flutes per pass. There is a joggle top and bottom about 1/2" high with a flange about an inch or 2 wide to slip under the adjacent sheet metal. I believe the gauge is about 22 or 20. At each end of the trim there is an area that is at right angles to the fluted area. I think the originals were pressed in a die. I would probably weld those pieces in. Most of the panels on my '48 are in good shape. I might replace one short section. How soon will you need these?

more details
 

Thanks guys!

My vintage bus is located in Victorville, CA, which is just over an hour from Los Angeles. It will most likely be transported to Dallas, TX for some additional work and then it will go all the way to Nova Scotia to have the interior done. So, anyplace along that route would be fine to get the stainless made.

The bus doesn't currently have any accent stainless on the sides, so it doesn't have to exactly match anything... although I really like the look of ones with the following dimensions:
Overall height: 13", Vertical space between ribs: 2 9/16", Height of ribs versus valleys: 3/8", Total depth from bus to top of ribs: 5/16"
I'm not certain what the overall length would need to be.

The bus is 34' long and this does not extend the full length of the vehicle. I'm assuming it might end up being about 30' long and will be broken in two spots near the rear to accommodate the engine/baggage door and on one side near the front for the front door.

Do you see a problem with maintaining a satin finish if the 90° sides are welded on, since I'm assuming grinding/polishing is what would usually be done to clean up the welds. I would rather not have a mirror finish.

Here's what the bus looks like right now:
https://img.skitch.com/20110216-8uwm...9hpuukrbym.jpg

Note: I also edited my original post to include a few additional photos.

Ben, the satin finish actually make the panel easier to make. The finish can be accomplish with scotch brite material rubbed over the panel. It will also make maintenance of the trim easier.

You can weld the end pieces on but you could also form them with the proper dies. The biggest problem with making these panel is the length. Whoever make them will probably have to work with a coil product because it will be hard to find flat sheet over 10 feet long. The other problem will be with shearing the sheet that long.

The original pieces were probably made in a roll former feed off of a roll of stainless steel. It formed the entire shape all at one time except for the ends. The end were done with special dies or by hand. My guess is that there is also a lip that is turned under along the length of the strip and maybe on the ends also. How are you going to attach it to the bus?

I don't know what would be the best method for attaching the stainless to the bus. I don't mind the screws that are shown in the pics and I'm assuming something like that can be used to attach them via existing frame members. I have to think about preventing water from getting behind them and draining any that might sneak in since the body is steel.

I'm not a mechanical, hands-on kind of guy... I mainly take photos, play on the computer and write. Wish I had the hands-on skills/knowledge, but have to rely on others for it. That's why I don't really know about attachment methods.

The originals were riveted in place, under a short piece above the trim and a longer skin below that extended down as a single plane curve. I think these were installed in sections about 6' long. The early Clippers had narrow trim through about 1951. Some of the later Visicoach and Starliner models had much wider trim. And some of the last ones had no trim. So, since what you want do isn't stock, you could stylize it any way you choose. I am partial to the narrow, early style. There are other nice trim pieces in these buses. The trim pieces at the bottom of the seats and along the arm rests are beautiful flowing pieces done in the same style but curved.
I'll take a look at mine on my way home this evening to see what it would take to do this.

Bob, did you ever get a chance to look at your Flxible. If it's a clipper, then it should have the exact style that I'm looking to have reproduced. I also like the small strip much better than the later versions.

If you feel like it, check out the WHAT page on www.creativecruiser.com for a lot more about the various Flxible models.

Ben, thanks for posting the information about your bus and about Flexible buses in general. Kind of make me want to have one but that won't happen. Hope you show pictures of it as you progress with the restoration and update.

Hey Ben, I did spend some time pondering the trim on my Clipper. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that to accurately duplicate the original trim would require either a very long custom punch, a press brake and an accurate back stop to do one flute at a time, or as Joe suggested, a roll forming machine. A bead roller or a Pullmax and a very skilled operator might be able to pull it off but It would be difficult to make the pieces as straight by the latter methods. I read a bit about roll forming and spent a little time drawing the final station dies. I think it would require a minimum of 3 roll forming stations. The first set of rolls would coin, or tip the top of the flutes slightly. The second set would begin to form the flutes and the third set would set the final shape. Before the roll forming operation the edges would be joggled in a brake. I forgot to measure the length of the individual pieces but I'm sure the trim is fitted together in sections not over 8' long. The ends could be hammer formed over a metal form with heat or they could be welded on then metal finished. There are also risers at the ends of the trim to adapt it to the curved sides of the bus at the front and rear. These are about an inch high at the thickest section.

I'm not in a position to do this any time soon. I do have most of the hardware to build the rolling machine and I have access to a CNC lathe to turn the rollers. I can imagine that before the end of the year I might have something at least started. There are many talented folks around here. Terry Stolarski and others can do some amazing things with a Pullmax. Maybe someone will be willing to try it that way.

I built a rolling table for my pullmax that can feed a 10 ft sheet through.
That can give you nice clean lines.

A buddy of mine was given one. It had been used during the 50s (anybody remember duck and cover)
(obligatory sheet metal content - ;))
It had a lead lined box built in as a mobile radiation/if not bomb shelter.

Cool old bus.

Someone posted pictures of a cable and winch system to pull the sheet through a Pullmax. This might also help to keep things straight.

Bob, if I was going to do it in a pullmax the first thing I would do is brake the sides to form a channel and use that as the guide to keep the lines straight.
It would take a couple of passes to get the flute shapes right I think.

Do you know what gauge the stainless is?

Dyce also posted a picture of his rig.

a one track system with clamps to hold the sheet.

Went out in the shop to see what you could do with a pullmax and a bead roller. Here are some picture of a piece of 20 gauge ss, 2-1/2 wide spacing on the flutes and 5/16" deep. Just used some existing die I had. Only did 2 flutes.
Was a little hard to take pictures because it is the mill finish and shiny.

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/pictu...pictureid=6682

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/pictu...pictureid=6683

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/pictu...pictureid=6682

Think it can be done this way but it would take 3 people. One to feed, one to guide and hold it steady on the discharge end. Eight foot long pieces would be a challenge.

Joe the original stainless is less than 20 gauge, maybe 22 or 24. There are 6 peaks and 5 valleys. The distance from peak to peak is 2.6". I agree with the plan to start with a hat channel. I haven't worked it out yet but I'm pretty sure the flat blank started as 16" wide. There are 1" horizontal flanges and the vertical section is about 7/16" The radius at the top of the peaks could be adjusted to make the 16" blank dimension come in. 16" would yield 3 strips from a sheet with no waste. The bend allowance/bend is around .05 or .06.

Maybe I'm making too much of this but I think the hard part would be getting the panels exactly uniform and straight over a length of about 30'. That's what led me to think that the best way to do this would be a press brake or a dedicated roll forming machine.

Bob, I agree that the best and most accurate way to make this trim is in a roll former. Once the dies are made and you can get a siding or roofing manufacturer to agree to make it you are in business. You can buy slit rolled product from a mill in coil form. The siding manufacturer could set up their machine load the coil run it through a flattener and produce one coil lengths worth of product. The problem would be the ends and being able to accurately cut the fluted material without distorting it. With the amount of buses out there I would think there is a market for the trim.

The 20 gauge material that I used in the short section wanted to flop around a good bit. For long pieces this could create a real problem and would probably need some type of hold down. I don't have a feed or discharge table that would be needed for both the pullmax and the bead roller to produce the trim. This would be an expensive project because of the amount of cost in setting up the equipment. The roll former is the way to go especially if the gauge of the metal is thinner than 20 gauge.