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Old 03-10-2017, 03:39 AM
Trevor B Trevor B is offline
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I have a question please, being a new kid on the block I would like an explanation of the types of powered machines. What is the difference between a planishing machine, a power hammer , a reciprocating machine and what are the differences in what they are used for. I have a reasonable understanding of a planishing machine and what it does.

I fail to see the difference between other types
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Last edited by Trevor B; 03-10-2017 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:21 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor B View Post
I have a question please, being a new kid on the block I would like an explanation of the types of powered machines. What is the difference between a planishing machine, a power hammer , a reciprocating machine and what are the differences in what they are used for. I have a reasonable understanding of a planishing machine and what it does.

I fail to see the difference between other types
Hi Trevor,
A reciprocating machine works like an electric sewing machine - the upper part goes up-down -up-down while the lower is stationary. The upper comes to a stop before it retracts and even though the speed can be fast there is no great amount of impact. The reciprocating machines use a rotating shaft to generate the "push" on the upper mechanism. The "hit" is pre-set, but can be adjustable to a certain extent. These machines can shear, nibble, punch, dome, shrink, stretch, turn edges, and shape metal into louvers and profiles. They do have limits because of their lack of impact/force.

Power hammers deliver a great deal of impact (hit) and can shape metal very quickly. They can be electric or air/pneumatic. The electric hammers can vary their speed and their impact, as can the air/pneumatic ones. Both can deliver a single smack. Air/pneumatic forging hammers are capable of stretching 3,4,5,6inch or even thicker hot steel. They can also cold work metal. Some can shrink.

Planishers smooth the metal by light hammering with light rapid hits. They can stretch the metal when set to run wide open. As a rule, they do not shrink, turn edges, make radius bends, etc. They do one thing well.

Shaping metal is defined as manipulating the metal's surface area: stretching and/or shrinking. Shaping hammers can also planish, at least some metals. Thin metals (less than .040") are more difficult for shaping hammers to accurately stretch, shrink, or planish, especially on aluminum.

This is my view anyway, as a longtime professional craftsman, and there are Lots of views....
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Last edited by crystallographic; 03-10-2017 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:39 AM
Trevor B Trevor B is offline
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Thank you Kent

it would appear that the main difference is in the effort that they can apply and how it is applied

from an engineering point of view anything that is a linear reversing motion is a reciprocating motion hence my confusion !!

The planishing machine my understanding was correct.

yes there are many views as I have noticed , all different ways to achieve an end result
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:58 AM
Trevor B Trevor B is offline
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I have another question
wheeling machines
i have noticed that they have varying diameter and width of the lower rollers (anvils) is a particular diameter and or width any better than another or do they all perform the same
thanks
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:59 AM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Trevor, think of power hammers as having some type of energy storing device. Normally this is a spring but it can also be compressed air. As the die rises it stores energy in the spring and as the spring releases the stored energy the die is FLUNG into the lower die.

Regarding roller width, the metal only knows pressure at the contact patch, the remainder of the width offers support for the panel. A better shaper can use narrower rollers on flatter panels but new folks will appreciate the wider rollers on low crown panels. Most motorcycle folks prefer 2" width and most car guys do 3"s. I can't speak to the airplane guys but expect mainly 3's.

You always choose an anvil that best fits within the shape being wheeled. As the crown increases, you switch to a more aggressive anvil.

Personally, I have 7 sets of anvils from 1x1" to 4x6" and use them all from time to time.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:51 AM
KAD KAD is offline
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Another view...

Power Hammers are a mechanical representation of a man "throwing" a hammer at a surface.

Much like a Blacksmith throws a hammer and his arm would be replicated by some device meant to allow overstrikes and understrikes without damage to the mechanism.

Plenishing hammers are more akin to a man using a corking tool, but where the arm swinging the hammer striking the end of the tool effect is replicated by a metal slug moving in a bore.
Ideally the tool should be held in contact with the surface of the metal and then the end would be struck.
Most of the designs tend to suffer excessive tool bouncing which should be avoided if a very smooth surface is desired.


As you can see the mechanism replicates the more traditional hand held methods as much as possible.

(Just my view not to be confused with anything related to "the truth")
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:09 PM
Trevor B Trevor B is offline
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Kirk and Kerry

now the brain has clicked , can understand them now.

Thanks for the anvil explanation.

there are some very talented blokes on this site

cheers
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:55 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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The brewery tours at Coors and Oly years ago were enlightening for me. At that time they still had the old tanks and vessels made before the advent of 8ft spinnings and pressings - methods now commonly used to make the "heads" for those tanks. The old heads were comprised of six or eight hammered pie cuts, welded together. Since the copper was 1/8 to 1/4" thick, the machines of choice were the big electric power hammers.

Interesting find was one of the brewer fab shops in Oakland,CA, closed and boarded up in '47, was un-boarded when it was finally sold, in '87. A room full of Quickworks was still intact, and all sold off.

Those big hammers will do some nice thick sheet very well.
I remember Leo Berger (CalMetal) making up a '14 Pierce cowl. Originally sand cast aluminum, like most of the Pierce body panels 1911 to 1919, he pounded it out of 1/4" 3003 ... on his big old Yoders.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:14 AM
Trevor B Trevor B is offline
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Kent
years ago I used to design aluminium petrol (gas) tankers. The ends and bulkeads were dished and flanged out of 1/4" aluminium 5082-H34.
The ends and bulkheads were about 8 foot wide 6 foot high semi elliptical in shape.

The dish ( about 7" across the 8 foot ) was formed with a reciprocating machine that was made in house.

The upper form was a convex steel dish , the lower form was also a steel dish , concave and with a 3/8 leather sheet on top to save marking the aluminium sheet.

The outer flange was formed by hand with a 1-2 " radius and a 1 " flange

about 1974 the company purchased a blue valley dishing and flanging machine.

Blue valley could not believe how accurate the ends and bulkheads were given that they were made by hand.
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