All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > Metal Shaping Projects > Automotive Projects
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12-07-2021, 11:44 PM
Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Malvern,PA
Posts: 141
Default

This may help you in figuring out how to shape the panels. I will try to describe where they were pieced at the factory.

Fenders are joined down the top center length. The side of the fender consist of a front and rear joined in the center of the wheel arch. The top fender section joined diagonally at the cowl and diagonally at the top of the nose. The headlamp opening is a separate ring about one inch wide. The side grill opening is hammer formed. Upper nose is one piece joined at the ends diagonally in the valley to the fenders. The nose wraps around to about a 1/4 inch into the grill opening. The center nose pillar is a single piece extending to the bottom. The lower nose is a left and right section extending to the lower centerline of the headlamp opening. The front grill openings are welded in as a separate piece as described with the upper nose. The cowl is a full length section.

The panels were TIG welded. It was common to see contours around the front grills that were built up with weld and filed back. The back sides of the welds were left proud.

The rockers and wheel hoses are steel with little attention to finish. Tooling marks from Echold machines were prevalent.

Door skins are one piece. While the face of the door hinge pillar is aluminum, the striker post is steel and lead finished. The rockets were also lead finished as needed.

Rear quarters are pieced down top center length ending in the tail lamp opening. Rear panel is one piece ending in tail lamp opening and diagonally in the valley to the inboard side. The trunk lid is two pieces joined just above the crest line. I find it interesting that it is the opposite of how Ferrari made a similar design in the Daytona deck lid. The fuel door is steel.

Panels were joined to the steel structure with 1/8 shank solid dome head rivets in the hood and rear deck openings. Flush 1/8 inch solid rivets were used on the hinge pillars. The wheel arches were rolled over the steel wheel houses and crimped. The bottom of the nose and tail were riveted to the steel structure and then the steel lip was rolled up over the aluminum. A cloth tape was used everywhere as a barrier.

I hope that gives you some aid in your metal shaping layout.

You are off to a good start. Donít be afraid to make parts in bigger sections. Although it may seam counter intuitive, larger pieces are often easier to shape and achieve proper flow.
__________________
Rick
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-08-2021, 07:13 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
MetalShaper of the Month April 2020, September 2021
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 1,851
Default

Dave, the absolute basis for shaping is a paper template. You shape the paper on a model and glue it with tape or something to keep it in shape. After removing, you will cut it so that the shape on the table is straight. You can immediately see where the material needs to be shaped. Extend fibers or shorten fibers. If you can handle the paper, you can move up the stairs and touch the body.
Not all science replaces paper for this way of shaping and determining the direction of fibers.
Good luck. The difference between a man and a boy is in the price of his toys ....
For example: Little fender https://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=18867
__________________
Jaroslav
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-08-2021, 08:02 AM
A12pilot's Avatar
A12pilot A12pilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 45
Default

Thatís great info, Rick! Yesterday was a practice day figuring out the shrinker abs stretcher. Thereís a site I downloaded about 1000 photos of the 507 in raw form being restored. Itís been invaluable for me and showing most of all you described, Rick:

https://www.martini-racing.com/bmw-507/

Scrolling through these shows just about every piece, angle, sub structure, etc. invaluable info for me. This along with a few other sites Iíve bookmarked the last few years researching this project, really give me direction on where and what to bend. Right now, itís just figuring out exactly how to bend it!

Iím headed out on a trip, so more progress next week!

Cheers
Dave

PS: and good advice, Jaroslav. The amount Iíve spent in metal forming tools satisfy the need for presents under the tree this year!
__________________
Cheers,
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-17-2021, 07:38 AM
A12pilot's Avatar
A12pilot A12pilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 45
Default

The mighty 1985 Dodge D150 decided to develop carburetor problems, so what's one to do? Simple... Swap in EFI! That unexpected thing took some time away from shaping, but I got some done. I get back from this trip Saturday evening and will hopefully finish up the nose Sunday!

What I'm finding is that I'm not sure how to go about double curves. In other words, take the front header panel where the emblem is. That panel not only needs to curve to match the grille opening, but it needs to curve left and right (like a gentle slope) to match the valleys where the fenders meet. I've tried a few ways but can't seem to make that happen. What am I missing?

Name:  IMG_20211215_145706750.jpg
Views: 297
Size:  73.8 KB

I'm going to redo this panel to try and make it less fabricated and more formed and shaped. I have front grilles being 3D printed and when they come back I'll see how far I'm off on measurements for the openings. Hopefully, they should fit right in with minimal issues.

More Sunday!

Cheers
Dave
__________________
Cheers,
Dave

Last edited by galooph; 12-18-2021 at 02:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-17-2021, 10:12 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
123pugsy 123pugsy is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Dec. 2019, Feb. 2022
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Markham,ON
Posts: 1,976
Default

Hate to say it, but almost every panel is "double curved", and what you're doing is making small bits of panels with curves in only one direction.


You're trying to learn on the wrong thing.
Practice panels is where you skill level is at right now.
__________________
Pugsy

my project:
http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=154
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-17-2021, 11:54 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
MetalShaper of the Month April 2020, September 2021
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 1,851
Default

Dave. Every time I try something, I do it on a smaller piece. My friend does not agree with this procedure. But I have a tried theory. This means that I know the basic principle. What will it do?
Don't underestimate the paper. If you understand the principle of paper, you will understand the properties of the fibers of the material. Then you have to do a lot of bad parts. Only then would I recommend a return to the original project.
Of course the effort is appreciated. Don't forget the basics of art. This is an understanding of paper. In this case, I put the paper in front of the software. If you have a model in 3D and 1: 1.
I have forgotten the great supply of patience, humility, and tenacity. Everything you've done so far in your life is no longer valid. You start from 0.

https://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=17904
__________________
Jaroslav
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-17-2021, 05:36 PM
Charlie Myres Charlie Myres is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Narrogin, Western Australia
Posts: 491
Default

Dave you need to start with a paper pattern, which will tell you how to go about making the panel.

Where you need to cut the paper to make it sit flat, is where it needs stretching and where the paper need folding, is where the panel needs shrinking.

On flatter areas where the paper sits fairly well, you can leave that area more or less alone.

Have a look at all of Peter's movies here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-lO0mwqQo

Watch them and then watch them again. Have a practice in the workshop, when you are not sure, watch the movie again. Practice, practice, practice.

If you don't have a wheel, you can still make nice panels, it just takes longer,

Cheers Charlie
__________________
Why does dust stick to everything, but nothing sticks to dust?
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-18-2021, 11:10 AM
A12pilot's Avatar
A12pilot A12pilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 45
Default

Thank you guys, this is why Iím posting to get the knowledge from you all. Criticism is always welcomed and appreciated!!

Iíve been using paper patterns, but incorrectly. Knowing where to shrink and stretch is a challenge, and thank you for the info explaining it. Thatíll help a lot. Iíve got 4 days off and plan on redoing some of the front panels to try and get them bigger. And Iím going to buy some aluminum and try that too. I have welded aluminum and figured the steel was more up my alley. Time to learn more!

You guys are awesome!

More practiceÖ..

Cheers
Dave
__________________
Cheers,
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-19-2021, 10:39 AM
Steve Hamilton's Avatar
Steve Hamilton Steve Hamilton is offline
ADMINISTRATOR MetalShaper of the Month Dec. '09 & May '11
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fond du Lac WI.
Posts: 2,161
Default

Hi Dave

I would agree with the advice that has been given, but would add that you might want to take a class in metalshaping.
I know that you are trying to make progress on the car but that is a steep learning curve.
A class will quickly get you through the basics and then you can practice using them. In the long run you will way ahead on your car and will achieve a much better quality on your panels.
__________________
Steve Hamilton
Hamilton Classics
Auto Restoration & Metalshaping
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-19-2021, 11:40 AM
drivejunk's Avatar
drivejunk drivejunk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Springdale, AR USA
Posts: 188
Default

I watched the video linked above but am not familiar with 100% of the terminology. Now I know what a sweep is but use cardboard instead. I know next to nothing. But in my limited experience I have found posterboard infinitely more useful than paper. Perhaps that is not so when replicating rather than fabricating but in most cases it seems to me that it makes a more informative (simpler to follow) pattern. Just my .02, and I don't mean to give bad info.
__________________
"The punishment for desire is the agony of unfulfillment."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:57 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.