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Old 02-27-2014, 06:30 PM
Just Just is offline
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Default question about bead difference between machines

dear sir´s

i am not new with metallwork but never work on such machines i found here inside
i want to buy some to learn and work with, but there are so much different but can do the same ???,...
the most i read is about PULLMAX , also about BEAD ROLLER and SHRINKER STRETCHER, and this makes me real crazy

i know, all machines do other work, but some is the same, so, what is the best choice??, is a pullmax an universal you can do the most on it?? if you have the right dies for it, i know,...

or is it better to have a seperat shrinker stretcher and a seperate bead roller??,.....

also can a pullmax do the work like a powerhammer??, or better to have a real powerhammer ??

in moment my biggest problem is the place for all,...so i look for an universal machine can do the most work

please for help with this problem, give me only a few words about so i can checkout myselve what i need

thanks for your help

ernst
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:13 PM
handshaper handshaper is offline
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Hello Ernest, Even though I have minimal experience here on the forum and am certainly not the most qualified to answer your questions, I find your questions of immenent importance to all students of the craft. The answers you look for are really rather personal. Each finds their way, and each settles on different skills or methods that work the best for them the most times. But I will start the dialogue to try to answer some of your questions.
- My experience with a pullmax was to be able to use thumb nail dies for shrinking. I believe thumbnail dies provide some of the best shrinking possible, especially when you wish to shrink deep into the panel. But these dies can be overused and are not a cure all for every application.
you can use other dies for moulding, edging, etc.
- A lancaster style shrinker and stretcher is a good tool for small to medium shrinking needs. It is used mostly to pull in / shrink and edge. It can be an inexpensive way to get mechanical assist for shrinking. It is handy for curving an flange. As long as the flange isn't too wide.
- I have been taught (not completely) by one of the best power hammer man around, but I still like the English Wheel. Studing the work of men like John Glover will demonstrate that almost any metal shaping project can be accomplished with the wheel, including contour lines and reverses and flanges. The power hammer is a great tool but expensive and i believe it requires completely different approach to shaping and what I would call a different skill set.
- My first choices would be an English Wheel, a shrinker/stretcher and then maybe a bead roller.
Again I am not the most experienced here by a long shot. But as I have been learning, I try to understand what the metal needs to make the shape and then realize that when this craft was developed way back when, these modern power tools didn't exist. I appologize if I have lead anyone in the wrong direction, I just wanted to contribute to the conversation about these typical questions. Dave C.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:32 PM
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Joe Hartson Joe Hartson is offline
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Take a look at this thread, http://allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=2926
You said you are new. There is no Machine that will do everything and make you a metal shaper over night. Unless you know how metal moved when you apply pressure to it machines will allow you to make a lot of scrap very fast.

I would suggest that you look around the site and use the Search function, lots of good information on the site.
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:31 AM
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first, thanks for all explanationes, but to can realy speak about i think i must explain myselfe to you,...

i have a small company with my daughter, since 1990, making carrep, paintjobs, crash rep, working also on racebikes, build streetfighter´s and low riders, sell, tune, repair jet-ski´s and work for a young racer who winns world-championship 12 times now,...

all the years , if time, i repair old cars and bikes and machinery, restore it, paint it fix it, also make all sheetmetall on it, but with small tools, big experience, real big heard for this work, but know i know, with less machinery, and also less knowledge for this,....

now the time is coming to go back to beginn and work more with older cars and bikes, modern and new cars makes me crazy over the years, nothing to repair, only to change, and now the changing goes to next level to must use more and more this cheap aftermarked parts because the oem price goes high for customers,...als in all, a dayli discusion with each customer, with each parts producter and each car-company,.....

what i have?, a lot of handtools, a big room for sandblast whole cars, spotwelder, wig welder, tig welder, cnc-mill, manual mill, 2 turningmachines, an old bead-roller, a lot of hammers, dies, sandbag, also a wood-strunk to hammer on and a cheap planishing hammer, a brake, a roller, bandsaw, also a big paint-box and a standox colour-depot with all you want to have, and,..and,..

english wheel and planishing hammer i have since 5 month and want to build my own, because what i have is real a chep-bad-badest-china-mud-product, both machines have a total weight from i think 100 kg, so stiff is an other part, rollers dont roll, are i think,..chromed??, but with tents in it, dont run round, bearings ar bad,....you see,....i beginn to learn, and this on fastway/badway,....

my biggest problem is to cannot work only on restaurationes, i must do it step by step, must also do other work to get money, so i dont have space for much new, big machinrey, and this was my question about a all in one machine, and yes, i sit night after night in front of pc and goes through the world of metallshape, find so much people are interest on this and get a lot of explanationes during read, spezial on this forum, and so much of you ar real artist in this, making things i never think about, only dream

1988 i visit a company in england, they build the prototype of the ultima car in aluminium, i was one week there, see all wheeling machines, hammers, sheers,.....and see what they do, i was in heaven, this was my beginn to do this in a smallest version myselfe,.....

okay, if interest, look a short time on my homepage, www.just.vienna.at and also www.el-cycles.com

here you see some i do

ernst
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:47 AM
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5 IMG_6571.jpg5 IMG_6571.jpgsome pics to explain
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:06 AM
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[ATTACH][/ATTACH][ATTACH]Bild-142.jpg[/ATTACH]and metall
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:19 AM
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some bikes
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