Frazer-Nash BMW wings.

[David Gardiner]

Originally Posted by Phil Minton

Thanks for the reply David and I understand your analogy about stacking dishes etc. but aren't they shapes of the same radius and profile with gaps between each? Going by your most recent post above, what I meant was that by marking out and trimming while directly on top of the original wing as you have shown, aren't you are increasing the width and length of the new wing by twice the thickness of the metal you are using? I know it's not a great deal in the real world and asked as a genuine question, not a criticism. I fully appreciate the time and trouble you take to make your contributions to this forum and the quality of your work.

Phil, like I said I think anyone would be hard pushed to create a buck for something like these wings and end up with anything more accurate than two metal thicknesses. I do take into account lengths of panels and such. I prefer to fit panels once I have made them as I can make any small adjustments at that stage.

David

[David Gardiner]

Originally Posted by Götz

My dictionary says: "A feast for the eyes".
Are the parts wheeled only front to back or perpendicular too? A few words to the wheeling job from you would be fine.

The finish looks so smooth, beautiful !

Götz

Cheers Götz. I tend to wheel in one direction but it depends on the panel.

I realised that I jumped ahead with the last post. I will put a bit more details and some more photo's soon.

David

[David Gardiner]

Going back a couple of steps from my last photo, here is one of the outer sections of the wing.

I can't work out what is reflected in the panel ...




...and here I am scribing what will be the joint between two of the sections




When using a scriber always angle it so that the point is in up against the edge of the section, if it is not held correctly your line can be inaccurate leading to gaps in the joint and problems when it comes to welding the parts together.

David

[David Gardiner]

This is a shot from further away I use datum lines to ensure that the sections of panel always go on in the same possition, otherwise the panel can end up being changed each time to fit a different point on the buck (wing in this instance).

I put my joints where there is a definate change in the shape, for example if I were to wheel all this area in the photo above I would have a very long section and where the wing rolls under at the front of the wing would be very difficult to wheel. It could be done but I prefer to be able to wheel the sections to a good fit and finish without struggling then put a joint in the panel which can easilly be dressed out by hand. It also means I dont have shrinking marks all over the the panels.

David

[Phil Minton]

Great tips and photos David, thanks for posting them.

Having the experience and confidence in your own welding skills shows through in your approach. I think most beginners like me would go for as large panels as possible because of a lack of confidence/practice in welding. When you get your courses up and running I'd certainly want to learn OA.

NB - Is the reflection in the panel your roller shutter door?

[Frank.de.Kleuver]

Thanks David for sharing your line of thought making this panels and where to put the welds.

How do you cut accurately along the scribed lines? Avionics snips, Gilbows, Beverly shear or other? I personally don't like the edges of the avionics snips for welding ali.

Do you take extra time to make an almost zero gap?

Sorry for the many questions.

Greetings,

Frank

[David Gardiner]

Originally Posted by Phil Minton

Great tips and photos David, thanks for posting them.

Having the experience and confidence in your own welding skills shows through in your approach. I think most beginners like me would go for as large panels as possible because of a lack of confidence/practice in welding. When you get your courses up and running I'd certainly want to learn OA.

NB - Is the reflection in the panel your roller shutter door?

Hi Phil, could be the door, I am not sure, it was not that close to the door. Just stumped me when I looked at it. .

My belief is that the first skill that anyone wanting to do this should master is welding in the traditional way whether with tig or gas because it opens up so many possiblities. Most people think if they learn to wheel they can make anything but I believe the welding is more important and central to the need of the panel maker. That is my opinion I know some out there will seethe about that comment but it is my opinion.

I will wait for the backlash...

David

[David Gardiner]

Originally Posted by Frank.de.Kleuver

Thanks David for sharing your line of thought making this panels and where to put the welds.

How do you cut accurately along the scribed lines? Avionics snips, Gilbows, Beverly shear or other? I personally don't like the edges of the avionics snips for welding ali.

Do you take extra time to make an almost zero gap?

Sorry for the many questions.

Greetings,

Frank

Frank I use tinsnips, probably what you have in mind when you say Gilbows but many British companies made this style of snips and neither of mine are Gilbows.

I use aviation snips at times, depends on where I am cutting, they have their uses. As for zero gap. I just mark accurately and cut accurately. Occasionally I will file a little if need be but its never much.

David

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Originally Posted by David Gardiner

...My belief is that the first skill that anyone wanting to do this should master is welding in the traditional way whether with tig or gas because it opens up so many possiblities. Most people think if they learn to wheel they can make anything but I believe the welding is more important and central to the need of the panel maker. ...

I don't disagree. However, I believe we have to be able to do both. I went to a local custom shop once and the owner was showing me a 58 Chevy pickup with front fenders that curved down on top. I asked him how he did it and he said 'shaped them.' When he wasn't looking, I stuck my head in the wheel well and saw about 5000 little pieces all MIG welded together.

If the guy had done a bit of shaping and welded 4-5 panels together it would have saved him a ton of time, grinding, and produced a vastly better result.

That said, it's kind of a chicken or egg kind of thing. If you can weld, it doesn't necessarily mean you can shape and vice versa.

As I say in MY DVD, "...as you become more experienced, you will be able to make more complex panels in one piece. However, just because you can, doesn't always mean you should..." I've chased the dragon of trying to make huge complex panels. I can do it....and I can do it by hand or by machines. However, I've learned that it's quicker to make it in a FEW pieces normally than try and manage one large complex panel. I've also learned that it is VERY, VERY important to be sure the sub panels are in correct arrangement and alignment with each other before they are welded together.

Yes, good welding skills are a key tool in any Metal Shapers toolbox.

[David Gardiner]

Kerry you can make a lot of stuff just by welding sections together then doing a little working with hand tools. With the right approach very little shrinking of panels is needed if sections are joined using this method and the joints are put in the right place. I said the first skill to learn is welding in the traditional way. Not instead of wheeling but I place its importance ahead of wheeling. To me its doesn't matter how nicely sections are wheeled if they are welded together badly. I don't think that making panels in one piece is the holy grail of metalshaping, if the finished result is less well shaped ,fits less well and took longer to make what is the point?. Like I said just my opinion.

David