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Old 02-18-2021, 04:32 PM
Harpkatt Harpkatt is offline
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Default Mistakes were made

I've got pretty good experience welding and purchased a fancy new tig machine. My first project was to install patch panels in my model a Roadster. Well experience on plate steel didn't quite transfer to old Ford Sheer metal. In short I warped and blasted a bunch of holes in the metal. I spent the new two weekends and two tanks practicing on thin metal.

My problem is, since I ruined the area above the patch I will have to fix that area before putting in the patch. I have a bead roller so I can remake the patch panel beads and go a little higher .The issue is there is a slight radius,actually two radii the a need be put into the patch to match the original steel.

This is where I'm a little stuck they are very very large radius and I don't have any good ideas how to put them into the panel or where to start.

I have a simple body hammer and a heel dolly. I thinking this is where to start.

As of now I'm a "youtube expert" (LOL) and have no hands on with metal shaping like this,This is the beginning of the rabbit hole for me.

I plan to purchase a Spoon in short order so maybe the will help.
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Old 02-18-2021, 09:07 PM
BTromblay BTromblay is offline
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Hi

Some pictures would help with answering your question. Hammers, dollys and the corner of the work bench could be just fine for what you are trying to do. To help practice with welding, set the current at 1amp per thousand of inch of material. (.040" thick = 40amps). This is a start point and adjust as needed. To simulate welding thinner/old material, use your hammer and dolly and thin the edge of your test coupon. Try to remember that the heat coming out of the TIG torch is directional, just as a open flame coming out of a oxy/acetylene torch. You want to try and favor the thicker of the two pieces of material with the heat from the torch. Welding is 10% knowledge and 90% practice, keep at it and you will figure it out.

Hope it helps.
B
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Old 02-19-2021, 04:35 AM
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Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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With TIG the best way I found was to match the tungsten diameter to the same thickness as the sheet metal. Same goes with the filler rod should be the same or even slightly thinner. I use mig wire as a filler rod.
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Old 02-19-2021, 09:57 AM
ojh ojh is offline
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Find some .045 ER70S-2 welding rod, it flows at a lower temp and flexible. read thru the welding thread, lots to read about shrinkage and how to deal with it.
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Old 02-19-2021, 05:23 PM
Harpkatt Harpkatt is offline
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I appreciate the pointers guy on the welding. what can I do to match the panel curve though? The shaping part itself is more my issue. I did read through a bunch of the welding and planishing threads they seem in line with other info Ive come across.
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Last edited by Harpkatt; 02-19-2021 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 02-19-2021, 05:47 PM
metaldahlberg88 metaldahlberg88 is offline
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Do you have any reference pics of the area you re trying to patch up?You say the panels have a very large radius. Can you clarify?

If you need to add a low crown to your panel you can do it with your hammer and dolly. On-dolly contact by the hammer will stretch the metal and create the crown if you systematically work the panel. If you need a higher crown in the panel then you can rough into a shot bag with a mallet, a stump, or do some tuck shrinking. Planish with dolly and maybe that spoon you mentioned you'd buy soon.
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Old 02-20-2021, 12:45 AM
norson norson is offline
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Those panels have a very shallow crown. I've read somewhere that a shallow crown could be formed by laying it crown side down on a hard flat surface (steel table/concrete floor??) and tap with a low crown hammer over the entire surface needing to have the crown. Think of the flat surface as the upper wheel of a english wheel and the hammer as the lower wheel or anvil. Never done it just read about it somewhere.
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:54 AM
metaldahlberg88 metaldahlberg88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norson View Post
Those panels have a very shallow crown. I've read somewhere that a shallow crown could be formed by laying it crown side down on a hard flat surface (steel table/concrete floor??) and tap with a low crown hammer over the entire surface needing to have the crown. Think of the flat surface as the upper wheel of a english wheel and the hammer as the lower wheel or anvil. Never done it just read about it somewhere.
I haven't done it either, but that is a technique I saw David Gardiner demonstrate on his Body Work Restoration Tutorial DVD.
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:45 AM
Harpkatt Harpkatt is offline
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https://www.allmetalshaping.com/album.php?albumid=1186

Here's the link to the photos I took of the panel.

Part of my issue when welding the panel,which I learned afterwards is that this area was previously "lead welded". I'm fairly sure the lead contaminated the welds as I was going along. Either way, its a mess and needing g to be fixed. I fixtured some 22 g steel at the same height and orientation as the panel of the car and practiced in the thinner material. The Welds came out like I'd hoped
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Last edited by Harpkatt; 02-21-2021 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:38 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpkatt View Post
https://www.allmetalshaping.com/album.php?albumid=1186

Here's the link to the photos I took of the panel.

Part of my issue when welding the panel,which I learned afterwards is that this area was previously "lead welded". I'm fairly sure the lead contaminated the welds as I was going along. Either way, its a mess and needing g to be fixed. I fixtured some 22 g steel at the same height and orientation as the panel of the car and practiced in the thinner material. The Welds came out like I'd hoped

The metal must be clean prior to welding, brazing, soldering.
This means "bright and evenly-colored" and achieved by sanding, wire wheel, vigorous brushing.
any residues of "solder" or "braze" metal alloys - copper, zinc, tin, lead, etc will seriously degrade both the parent metal and the filler that is being added.
Cannot emphasize this point enough.


How to see dis-similar alloys on the steel clearly:

"Coloring" steel (not aluminum or brass or stainless ...) can be done with the torch and creating the blue-purple oxidation color with the flame, which reveals any alloys not compatible with the steel.

So, you color the steel, shut off torch, inspect the area, sand the alloy off, and color again. Check again. (Do not quench the hot steel.)
Repeat until the area is completely bright silver, both sides.

Both sides.
I've been doing this since I was a pup.

Had lots of learning via practice-by-failure. Hard to find really good info, sometimes, and very hard when no time exists to search.

As you are finding, good info will be parallel.


(ps. "lead welding" or "lead burning" is used to join lead parts for batteries or bus-bars. However - "Body soldering" is the old-school body shop / car factory method of loading semi-molten lead solder onto auto bodies as filler. Was done to millions of cars, since 1915, or so.)
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Last edited by crystallographic; 02-21-2021 at 12:48 PM.
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